A Festering Wound In Labour's Side!

[Devil]

Jackie,

Prithee, tell me, just between us, why Scargill's miners went on strike, in the first place. Was it just a whim to wave two fingers at Thatcher and company?

[tonee]

A good friend of mine was one of the head engineers at the massive Llanwern steelworks in Newport.He told me it was cheaper to import coal from Poland than have it delivered from Merthyr Tydfill colliery just 20 miles away.Economics.

[Jimgym]

How many coalmines did Wilson close down compared to Thatcher?

[OhSusana]

43 per cent of mining jobs went in the 1960s under Wilson while 80 per cent were lost under Thatcher.
However, Wilson closed more mines!
Statistics. )

[Uncle D]

Did alright against the Argies as well.

She did alright? it was the British armed forces that did alright, she sent them in and sat at No10 kacking herself about how it would turn out.

[Firefly]

Devil

In my opinion Scargill called the strike in the 80s, or should I say ordered it, without a union vote, to stop Mrs Thatcher from closing some defunct or low production mines. He used his flying pickets to cause havoc and mayhem, he was basically a bully.

I believe that Nottinghamshire miners did not support Scargill and his strike, so not all miners were convinced that Scargill was right. Had he not lead that strike, things may well not have ended as they did.

Jackie

[Devil]

Devil

In my opinion Scargill called the strike in the 80s, or should I say ordered it, without a union vote, to stop Mrs Thatcher from closing some defunct or low production mines. He used his flying pickets to cause havoc and mayhem, he was basically a bully.

I believe that Nottinghamshire miners did not support Scargill and his strike, so not all miners were convinced that Scargill was right. Had he not lead that strike, things may well not have ended as they did.

Jackie

As usual, you cherry pick little bits of information without seeing the whole picture.

Firstly, whereas it is true that the strike was called without a union vote, that was simply because Joe Gormley, his predecessor, had ignored previous ballots but was upheld by the courts. Ballots had therefore been deemed legally unnecessary.

The government plans for mine closing included not just poorly producing mines, but over 70 pits, many of which were profitable. In 2014, the 30 year rule implied that Scargill was right.

Roughly, only half the miners were members of the National Union of Mineworkers, and they supported Scargill with a great majority, although there was never a ballot. The other half, including your Nottinghamshire miners, were members of the Union of Democratic Mineworkers, who did not support the NUM. They did not strike.

[Firefly]

Devil

I cannot comprehend a leader of a union, ignoring ballot results and going their own sweet way, but there it is, democracy ? I don't think so. Scargill was a Communist, as was his father, the Government of the day was Tory, he was hell bent on bringing down that Government, but failed miserably.

In 2014, the 30 year rule 'suggested' that Scargill might have been right, however, it did nor prove that he was right.

You accuse me of 'cherry picking' information, that said, your second and last paragraphs, just echo the information I posted.

Jackie

[Devil]

Devil

I cannot comprehend a leader of a union, ignoring ballot results and going their own sweet way, but there it is, democracy ? I don't think so.

[Devil]

It is nothing to do with democracy; it was a decision of the judiciary. For what reason, I don't know.

[Firefly]

Devil

I would suggest that it was a very wrong decision.

[Devil]

I would suggest that it was a very wrong decision.

Please explain, as you seem to know why the High Court decided that a ballot was not on the cards and you consider it to be 'a very wrong decision.'

[Firefly]

Now we really are entering the realms of fantasy.

How would I know why the High Court came to the decision it did, but to allow a union leader to call a strike because he wants one, seems a recipe for disaster, as it proved to be.

Now Devil, I'm sure as you have said before you 'have better things to do' than carry on with silly discourse involving myself.

I have my opinions, and I do not have to explain any further why I hold those opinions.

End of.

Jackie

[Devil]

Now we really are entering the realms of fantasy.

How would I know why the High Court came to the decision it did, but to allow a union leader to call a strike because he wants one, seems a recipe for disaster, as it proved to be.

I have my opinions, and I do not have to explain any further why I hold those opinions.

End of.

Jackie

Obviously if you do not know why the High Court came to its decision, how can you possibly say the results led to a recipe for disaster? The decision was made very simply because Joe Gormley was trying to turn a minor regional problem into a national one, by calling a countrywide strike. A national ballot would therefore have been inappropriate. Scargill was doing his best to avoid a similar débacle.

You have declared yourself as being opinionated (which is very obvious). I am not particularly opinionated either on the subject of Scargill & Co or, for that matter, the subject matter of this thread. As for Corbyn, which is the subject matter, I think he has been very naive, as I have already mentioned, but I could not care less whether he remains the leader of the Labour Party or not. Similarly, I could not care less whether Theresa remains the leader of the Conservative party or not. I consider them both incompetent and unsuitable for the position they hold. In short, there is a festering wound in both Labour's and Conservatives' sides.

[Firefly]

Devil

I take it that you do not consider the results of Scargill's strike to be a disaster, for the miners I think it was.

As for being opinionated, why would anyone who doesn't have an opinion, bother to post at all, indeed, without an opinion, they would have nothing to post would they.

Still nothing better to do ?

Jackie



Post whatever you will,

[Devil]

As for being opinionated, why would anyone who doesn't have an opinion, bother to post at all, indeed, without an opinion, they would have nothing to post would they.

Yes, I can have an opinion. From time to time, I change my opinions, as the subjects evolve. I hope I am not opinionated, as you claim to be.

Shorter Oxford English dictionary:
Thinking too highly of or sticking obstinately to one's own opinion; conceited; dogmatic. E17.
b. Obstinate, self-willed. M17.

[Firefly]

Yes got me in one Devil and "frankly my dear, I don't give a damn"

Jackie

[Jimgward]

There was a great documentary on this week, on BBC2 about Jews from the UK going to Israel and debating the political issues. Very interesting, they met with all sorts and a few of the party would not change their views at all.... very right-wing and anti-palestinian. One even claimed there never was a Palestine.

[Uncle D]

The festering wound seems to be in more than Labours side!