Is the tide finally turning?

[ApusApus]

Who's Polly ?

He must have confused Poll & Poppy from the original post & got Polly!


Shane

[Dominic]

Yes I meant Poppy.

[Poppy]

Don't worry about it! In fact I quite like the name Polly and might change to it!!!

[Dominic]

This is an interesting read:

Who's paying for these 'reports' on BBC Brexit coverage?
PETER GEOGHEGAN and ADAM RAMSAY 23 October 2017
Why do newspapers parrot 'reports' about BBC bias from organisations funded by hardline Brexiters?

https://www.opendemocracy.net/uk/brexit ... t-coverage

[outasite]

Whatever...scientists from universities in three countries believe they can now explain why people vote for populist ideologies like Brexit and Trump.

Read here: https://uk.news.yahoo.com/scientists-th ... 52090.html

Perhaps Brexiteers on the forum could confirm if, and in what way, they feel disadvantaged.

Is this something they would like to talk about, either publicly on the forum, or in confidence? I can offer a soothing, listening ear

I didn't vote leave because I felt disadvantaged. I voted leave because your beloved European Union was founded on lies and nothing else. I voted leave because like the rest of the fools in 1970s UK I voted to join a Common Market to promote duty and tax free trade between 7 (including the UK) countries. My vote had absolutely nothing to do with immigration quotas, in fact I have no problem with anyone coming into the UK as long as they can support themselves......much like we have to here in Cyprus. My vote to leave was purely because the foundation of the EU is lies, lies and more lies. And liars never prosper in the long term.

[Jimgward]

This “Soverign rights”claim I think is a red herring.... I cannot see how we, as Brits, are restricted or controlled as to most of what we want to do. We pass out own laws, (albeit some based on EU legislation) we have our own forces, go to war independently, trade with nations outside the EU and pretty much control what we want.....

[outasite]

...in 1970s UK I voted to join a Common Market to promote duty and tax free trade between 7 (including the UK) countries.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the EU does that very effectively, but now with duty and tax-free trade between 28 member states. You'll find to your cost what this means if and when there is a Hard Brexit and you have to pay import duty and VAT on everything you order online from the UK or anywhere else in Europe...and when you have to trudge through the 'Goods to Declare' channels at all European Airports, including Cyprus.

The issue of mass immigration to the UK is nothing whatsoever to do with EU countries, whose nationals are sorely needed in the farming, retail, medical and hospitality industries, but rather the mass immigration from the rest of the World which Labour turned a blind eye to during it's many years in power.

The UK will be much the poorer if it loses the EU nationals who are by and large industrious, wish to support themselves through their own endeavours and hard work and who have been responsible for much of the success of the UK economy in recent years.

And lies? Have you ever listened to the lies told by UK politicians from both sides of the house?

I agree absolutely that the EU has duty and VAT free trade between member states. That was the core being of the EU because without that there would have been no EEC and therefor no morphing into the EU you know and love today.
As I stated immigration had nothing to do with my choice. Except possibly the bully tactics of one Angela Merkel who decided that she would allow millions of "refugees" to come into the EU and dictated that all member states would take a proportionate amount in. That stuck in my throat a bit but was not the reason I voted out.
As has been posted so many times since June 2016 no-one, no-one has any idea what the outcome will be. Guesses, possibilities, conjecture spring to mind but nothing until agreement is reached which will probably be never as the likes of Gina Miller have gone to court to ensure that every little thing is debated in Parliament before we can get our departure rubber stamped.
And if the EU do decide to make me stand in queues to get into a member state, well sod them there are nearly 200 other places I can go to.
The EU do not hold all the aces, BTW. In my humble opinion they are showing to the UK what a nasty intransigent bunch of *!&#% they are, by insisting we agree to pay them a divorce settlement of an amount to be determined - by them - before they will proceed, and I hope that Dave Davies tells them to get stuffed. Loudly and clearly.

[Dominic]

The uncensored version of the above post can be found in the pit, along with the definition of what it actually means.

[Royal]

EU law supersedes UK law.

The decisions of the ECJ supersedes the decisions of the UK Supreme Court.

We cannot negotiate our own trade deals. The EU must do that ‘on our behalf.’

The EU sets the parameters for VAT. We must comply.

The list goes on, and will continue until all Sovereignty is gone. Nation states have their own Parliaments, Premiers, armies, flags national anthems. The EU, considering itself already an international ‘state’ has all of these (or proposes to). They even counted up all the Olympic medals attributed to individual EU member states as their own
There are many other free trade areas in the world. Only the EU insists on member states subjecting themselves politically to a central organ.

We will regain our sovereignty when we leave. Others will follow. The EU desperately want to deter others by punishing us.

The sooner we’re out, the better.

[Dominic]

They even counted up all the Olympic medals attributed to individual EU member states as their own

I don't think one tweet counts as official policy.
 

poot0.jpg (42.21 KiB) Viewed 6892 times

 

If it does, what do you make of this response from a Tory MP?
 

poot.jpg (45.76 KiB) Viewed 6892 times

 
Which of the two images above is the most out of touch?

[Royal]

I don't think one tweet counts as official policy.

If it does, what do you make of this response from a Tory MP?
 
Which of the two images above is the most out of touch?

The first one.

You failed to put the put the author of the tweet, making it seem as though it was an individual (like the silly Tory which you compared it with). The tweet was from the EU Parliament’s official Twitter Account. Whilst not policy, it does give it some credence as EU thinking. Additionally, if that is your only response to my post, I’ll take it that you agree with the substantive part of what I wrote. You know -the other 95% of my post.

[Dominic]

I couldn't be bothered commenting on the majority of your post. You will find my answer in previous replies to other threads.

That particular portion however, piqued my interest, as I was unaware of what you were referring to.

But just because it came from the official twitter account it doesn't make it official policy. Not every tweet they make is official policy. Some times, God Forbid, they may show a sense of humour.

However, looking at the image further, what is actually wrong with it? It shows that together, the countries in the EU got a lot more medals than the USA and China. I would imagine they are trying to compare it to economic clout. Alone, individual countries in the EU are not as powerful as China and the USA, but together, etc etc.

Hey look, you can also draw other parallels. Though all the EU countries are in the EU, they ran as their own teams, with their own trainers, banners, supporters and funding. They weren't ruled by a central EU sports body. Surely this one tweet is actually demonstrating that the EU doesn't want to be a super state? It just wants to be an umbrella, protecting the individual countries?

Whereas the Tory MP was just being a tool.

You really thought the first tweet was more out of touch!

[Royal]

But just because it came from the official twitter account it doesn't make it official policy. Not every tweet they make is official policy. Some times, God Forbid, they may show a sense of humour.

However, looking at the image further, what is actually wrong with it? It shows that together, the countries in the EU got a lot more medals than the USA and China. I would imagine they are trying to compare it to economic clout. Alone, individual countries in the EU are not as powerful as China and the USA, but together, etc etc.

Hey look, you can also draw other parallels. Though all the EU countries are in the EU, they ran as their own teams, with their own trainers, banners, supporters and funding. They weren't ruled by a central EU sports body. Surely this one tweet is actually demonstrating that the EU doesn't want to be a super state? It just wants to be an umbrella, protecting the individual countries?

Dominic,

Clearly it needs to be spelled out for you. The subject matter at hand - which was the reason and subject of my particular post - was about loss of sovereignty. My post gave examples of where we are clearly not a sovereign nation any more. My reference to the Olympic medals (as Hudswell clearly appreciated was rather tongue in cheek) was about how we are generally being subsumed in law, in economics, in politics, in defence, in security and even in sport. The LOL I inserted after my comment was rather a giveaway that it was tongue in cheek, but clearly didn’t work. Sorry about that.

Whereas the Tory MP was just being a tool.

You really thought the first tweet was more out of touch!

The first tweet was from “The EU Parliament”. The second was from an individual Tory MP. If something was placed on the 10 Downing Street Twitter Account, it would be picked on straight away and likely to make the news - as this one did. On the other hand, an out of touch politician of any party is unlikely to be so indulged with the oxygen of publicity. That’s why the First was more out of touch. Is that so hard to understand? For my part, I don’t understand why you give me 3 LOLs for that point of view. But then again, you are entitled to your opinion...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/08 ... -olympics/

[Royal]

PS

The EU tweet compared itself with 2 real Sovereign States - the USA and China. By putting itself at the top of the medal stand it is effectively asserting itself as a Sovereign State.

Sovereignty being the subject matter at hand, if you remember...

[Dominic]

I did think your tongue was in your cheek when you first posted the comment. I was however curious as I had not heard the story. However, your subsequent posts indicate that perhaps your tongue wasn't as firmly in your cheek as you thought.

The reason that I gave it 3 laughs, was because you found the notion of existance of an EU superstate more out of touch than the notion of the a British Empire. I am sure 100 years ago the reverse would have been equally amusing. The source of the message is surely irrelevant. Either the message is out of touch, or it isn't.

[Dominic]

A Central European sports Body.....now there's a winner..

Yes they could model it on Fifa. What could possibly go wrong?

[Jimgward]

I am sure most have no issue with bankers, per se. i.e. the people who work in banks and for banks in ordinary jobs. The ones paid millions, to gamble everyones future on sometimes immoral ventures and never get held to account, is a different matter...

[Jimgward]

Since this “group” of people you mention, were a very large part of the ongoing recession in the UK. People who were never held accountable. Many who now work for government owned, partly owned companies, yet still earn their exhorbitant salaries and are not accountable. I’m afraid like most, I’d see them punished, along with their bosses at the top. Only Iceland did the morally correct thing. Britain was too afraid of affecting it’s protected sector.

Here we are, 10 years on from the implosion we blamed Brown for, we elected Cameron on the promise of Austerity and wiping out the defecit in two terms. 10 years later, still austerity, deficit has increased and will do for another 5 years. Shocking and hell sort the bankers!