Anti Democracy Remainers (again)

[Jimgym]

Leaders of two political parties have said they wouldn't accept the result of another referendum if it was a vote for leave. Yet some on here still argue that Remainers are all for democracy, utter rubbish. When you have party leaders refusing to accept a democratic result unless it's the one they want then how can anyone possibly think anything different. I have added their comments below, from BBC interviews.

Swinson and Lucas are among those calling for a second referendum on Brexit. But when pushed by separate BBC interviewers as to whether they would accept the result of another referendum if the country voted Leave again, they both said no. On BBC News yesterday, Swinson said ‘No’, adding that ‘I’m going to do what I was sent here to do’. On Politics Live today, Lucas was at least more direct: ‘Um, no I probably wouldn’t.’

[Firefly]

Democracy in the UK only works when the populace agree with the politicians, it is therefore non existent.

[panoscouse]

Since when have politicians been democratic?

[Dominic]

If there was a second referendum and the choices were either:

No Deal Brexit or Remain
May's Brexit or Remain
Some other Brexit or Remain

(IE people were voting for two actual known outcomes.)

If remain lost then we should defintely leave by whatever means won.

[Jim B]

Alan
You can't really defend something that doesn't really exist. Hundreds of thousands of voters, if not millions were not allowed to vote for one reason or another in the referendum; I know for a fact because I was one of them.
The 1.3 million EU citizens resident in the UK were not allowed to vote though resident Indians, Pakistanis , Bangladeshi's, Srilankins, Australians, New Zealanders and Canadians were. British working overseas not on the electoral register were deprived of the vote and you keep repeating your mantra "Democracy".
As I keep repeating adnausium their is more to Democracy than just the vote, there is fairness and honesty as well but to me it seems that you believe the end justifies the means and that's where we differ.

Jim

[Jimgym]

Alan
You can't really defend something that doesn't really exist. Hundreds of thousands of voters, if not millions were not allowed to vote for one reason or another in the referendum; I know for a fact because I was one of them.
The 1.3 million EU citizens resident in the UK were not allowed to vote though resident Indians, Pakistanis , Bangladeshi's, Srilankins, Australians, New Zealanders and Canadians were. British working overseas not on the electoral register were deprived of the vote and you keep repeating your mantra "Democracy".
As I keep repeating adnausium their is more to Democracy than just the vote, there is fairness and honesty as well but to me it seems that you believe the end justifies the means and that's where we differ.

Jim

Nobody ever said life was fair Jim, I have not doubt you wouldn't be complaining had the vote been different. You might not like the democracy we have, that is your right, however until a better system comes along, if such a thing exists, we are stuck with it. Annoying for some who only believe in it when it suits them but that's life! Fairness and honesty? Such as party leaders saying they will only accept a referendum result if it's the one they want, tell me, how exactly is that fair and honest?

[Varky]

Alan
The 1.3 million EU citizens resident in the UK were not allowed to vote.

That statement is incorrect. As long as one was resident and had registered you were allowed to vote.

[Firefly]

Les B

That said, there are many countries where the citizens fought for exactly the opposite, Cyprus being just one.

[Jim B]

Alan
The 1.3 million EU citizens resident in the UK were not allowed to vote.

That statement is incorrect. As long as one was resident and had registered you were allowed to vote.

The statement is correct.

Jim

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-32872211

[Jim B]

Alan
You can't really defend something that doesn't really exist. Hundreds of thousands of voters, if not millions were not allowed to vote for one reason or another in the referendum; I know for a fact because I was one of them.
The 1.3 million EU citizens resident in the UK were not allowed to vote though resident Indians, Pakistanis , Bangladeshi's, Srilankins, Australians, New Zealanders and Canadians were. British working overseas not on the electoral register were deprived of the vote and you keep repeating your mantra "Democracy".
As I keep repeating adnausium their is more to Democracy than just the vote, there is fairness and honesty as well but to me it seems that you believe the end justifies the means and that's where we differ.

Jim

Nobody ever said life was fair Jim, I have not doubt you wouldn't be complaining had the vote been different. You might not like the democracy we have, that is your right, however until a better system comes along, if such a thing exists, we are stuck with it. Annoying for some who only believe in it when it suits them but that's life! Fairness and honesty? Such as party leaders saying they will only accept a referendum result if it's the one they want, tell me, how exactly is that fair and honest?

Alan
So basically you're agreeing with me; it's not about democracy at all, it's about the result?

Jim

[Jimgym]

Alan
You can't really defend something that doesn't really exist. Hundreds of thousands of voters, if not millions were not allowed to vote for one reason or another in the referendum; I know for a fact because I was one of them.
The 1.3 million EU citizens resident in the UK were not allowed to vote though resident Indians, Pakistanis , Bangladeshi's, Srilankins, Australians, New Zealanders and Canadians were. British working overseas not on the electoral register were deprived of the vote and you keep repeating your mantra "Democracy".
As I keep repeating adnausium their is more to Democracy than just the vote, there is fairness and honesty as well but to me it seems that you believe the end justifies the means and that's where we differ.

Jim

Nobody ever said life was fair Jim, I have not doubt you wouldn't be complaining had the vote been different. You might not like the democracy we have, that is your right, however until a better system comes along, if such a thing exists, we are stuck with it. Annoying for some who only believe in it when it suits them but that's life! Fairness and honesty? Such as party leaders saying they will only accept a referendum result if it's the one they want, tell me, how exactly is that fair and honest?

Alan
So basically you're agreeing with me; it's not about democracy at all, it's about the result?

Jim

Nope, I am doing the exact opposite actually.

[Firefly]

Les B

Sorry it amounts to the same thing, they didn't want to be ruled by Great Britain.

[Jimgward]

When I have voted in the past, I have voted against Conservative when Maggie Thatcher stood and was re-elected, didn't like it but accepted the result.

Same when Blair stood for re-election, I voted against him, but lost and accepted it.

I voted for Scottish Independence (in a referendum that Westminster politicians told the Scots, was BINDING - but wasn't) - lost and accepted it.

I voted against Leaving the EU, lost but subsequently found that it was rigged, illegal and that nobody knew what the outcome entailed. 3 years down the line, nobody can agree and it cries out for a second referendum, based on proper choices. If Boris tries to bulldoze through a no-deal, that will cost millions of jobs, will make us ALL (the normal people, not the rich) poorer, will cause untold problems with supplies for a long time, then London will look like Hong Kong.

If the Brexiteers really believe in democracy, then a second vote on the specifics is only democratic!

[Jim B]

Nobody ever said life was fair Jim, I have not doubt you wouldn't be complaining had the vote been different. You might not like the democracy we have, that is your right, however until a better system comes along, if such a thing exists, we are stuck with it. Annoying for some who only believe in it when it suits them but that's life! Fairness and honesty? Such as party leaders saying they will only accept a referendum result if it's the one they want, tell me, how exactly is that fair and honest?

Alan
So basically you're agreeing with me; it's not about democracy at all, it's about the result?

Jim

Nope, I am doing the exact opposite actually.

You are saying the result is acceptable by hook or by crook which is as I said earlier is how it works in Russia. I'm saying that is not Democracy In the UK we have a Plutocracy where the rich like Rothmere, the Barclay brothers and Murdoch call the tune by printing lies and distortions week in week out until the populace start believing It; as Firefly said there's no democracy in the UK
Jim

[Firefly]

Les B

No it isn't a democracy, politicians are voted in by the public to represent them in Parliament, in actuality they do not as has been proven, they all lie, they are all self serving, they even 'jump ship' when something doesn't suit them, how are they able to do this without the vote of their constituents ?

[Jimgym]

When I have voted in the past, I have voted against Conservative when Maggie Thatcher stood and was re-elected, didn't like it but accepted the result.

Same when Blair stood for re-election, I voted against him, but lost and accepted it.

I voted for Scottish Independence (in a referendum that Westminster politicians told the Scots, was BINDING - but wasn't) - lost and accepted it.

I voted against Leaving the EU, lost but subsequently found that it was rigged, illegal and that nobody knew what the outcome entailed. 3 years down the line, nobody can agree and it cries out for a second referendum, based on proper choices. If Boris tries to bulldoze through a no-deal, that will cost millions of jobs, will make us ALL (the normal people, not the rich) poorer, will cause untold problems with supplies for a long time, then London will look like Hong Kong.

If the Brexiteers really believe in democracy, then a second vote on the specifics is only democratic!

Why did you not protest the Scottish vote, as there were so many lies told during that campaign? If Remainers believed in democracy we wouldn't be having this discussion. I do however appreciate the irony of your last sentence, made me laugh anyway.

[Jim B]

When I have voted in the past, I have voted against Conservative when Maggie Thatcher stood and was re-elected, didn't like it but accepted the result.

Same when Blair stood for re-election, I voted against him, but lost and accepted it.

I voted for Scottish Independence (in a referendum that Westminster politicians told the Scots, was BINDING - but wasn't) - lost and accepted it.

I voted against Leaving the EU, lost but subsequently found that it was rigged, illegal and that nobody knew what the outcome entailed. 3 years down the line, nobody can agree and it cries out for a second referendum, based on proper choices. If Boris tries to bulldoze through a no-deal, that will cost millions of jobs, will make us ALL (the normal people, not the rich) poorer, will cause untold problems with supplies for a long time, then London will look like Hong Kong.

If the Brexiteers really believe in democracy, then a second vote on the specifics is only democratic!

Why did you not protest the Scottish vote, as there were so many lies told during that campaign? If Remainers believed in democracy we wouldn't be having this discussion. I do however appreciate the irony of your last sentence, made me laugh anyway.

Alan

Firstly, although I have a good Scottish name I was born in England to a third generation Scot.
Secondly I was in a place called Ruwais in the UAE during that period and it is in the back of beyond with only the local press available..
Thirdly. I do believe in the Democratic process with one man/woman one vote but so many voters were disenfranchised during the referendum that it made it all a farce.
Fourthly. To claim the Leave referendum which after all was only an opinion pole (that's what they are under British law no matter what Cameron said) to be a mandate to leave the EU was duplicitous in the extreme.

Jim

[Jimgym]

Interesting Jim but I didn’t actually ask you. I was replying to Jimgward.

[Firefly]

Les B

Suggesting an alternative is easy, that the politicians stop lying, stop helping themselves to tax payer money, and do the job they were elected to do, carry out the wishes of their constituents, sadly I don't think that will happen in my lifetime.

[Varky]

Alan
The 1.3 million EU citizens resident in the UK were not allowed to vote.

That statement is incorrect. As long as one was resident and had registered you were allowed to vote.

The statement is correct.

Jim
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-32872211

Knowing the BBC propensity for misreporting things, I prefer to use this as a source of information
https://www.gov.uk/elections-in-the-uk/referendums