Funnily Enough

[Jimgward]

The head of the armed forces also still denies any culpability of anyone for Bloody Sunday — after a full inquiry that found them at fault, so it doesn’t surprise me that this will get nowhere. Of course Hudswell will, I’m sure, always agree with the veterans.

I take the stance that troops don’t get supported enough during and post conflict and in retirement for most, but that culpability has to be agreed where wrong has happened. Not every allegation will be correct, but we need our troops to be above reproach, otherwise they’re no better than terrorists they are in conflict with.

[June]

The head of the armed forces also still denies any culpability of anyone for Bloody Sunday — after a full inquiry that found them at fault, so it doesn’t surprise me that this will get nowhere. Of course Hudswell will, I’m sure, always agree with the veterans.

I take the stance that troops don’t get supported enough during and post conflict and in retirement for most, but that culpability has to be agreed where wrong has happened. Not every allegation will be correct, but we need our troops to be above reproach, otherwise they’re no better than terrorists they are in conflict with.

I take the view that in many situations it may seem shoot or be shot. I do not understand the mentality of....oh go out and sort this problem out even if you die then 20/30/60 years down the line we have the drawing up of petticoats. Oh....perhaps you could have done things differently. It happened...it wasn't an afternoon tea-party. Accept it.

[ApusApus]

Typical response from Jimgward and an excellent reply from June!


Shane

[Dominic]

Excellent? Really? You are basically saying you would condone any atrocity carried out in the name of the UK without question.

[Devil]

All the previous posts are theoretical. For your info, I WAS THERE in 1956. I can't say that I saw any major atrocities at that time. I saw some acts of really bad judgement committed by UK forces, some of which led to bad consequences. As a civilian, it was only the over-zealous UK armed forces that left me indelible memories of what could be described as wrong-doing, including a serious threat to my own life. 'Nuff said!

[ApusApus]

Where have I actually said that Dominic? And have you ever been in that sort of situation because I haven't but I know what I would do if I ever was ……… and it wouldn't be shoot second!


Shane

[2QuarterPints]

Worthy of note - The DPP in Northern Ireland who instigated this witch hunt was the solicitor of choice for IRA members during "the Troubles". An interesting article:

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/barra-mc ... le-quacks-

[Dominic]

Where have I actually said that Dominic? And have you ever been in that sort of situation because I haven't but I know what I would do if I ever was ……… and it wouldn't be shoot second!


Shane

That was the implication of what June said, which you agreed with.

Besides, the incidents in question aren't cases of "shoot first, ask questions later". Far from it. Nor were they in the heat of battle.

[Chaddy]

What ever,its not exactly encouraging youngsters to seek a life in the military if when he decides to retire he may well be put through hell in his golden years by the very government that recruited him.

[Firefly]

June

Totally agree with you, it's ok for those looking in 60 years later, tut tutting, never having experienced terrorism themselves.

Jackie

[Chaddy]

True this.A very close Cypriot friend who,s been a friend of mine for many years told me the tale of when British soldiers came to search his house and started to question his dad.He said being only eight or nine years old at the time he was shaking with fear.A soldier saw how petrified he was and gave him a piece of chocolate.He,s never forgot it.

[Dominic]

June

Totally agree with you, it's ok for those looking in 60 years later, tut tutting, never having experienced terrorism themselves.

Jackie

How patronising can you get?

Terrorism didn't end 60 years ago. The IRA were spreading mayhem throughout my childhood and early adult life.

[June]

June

Totally agree with you, it's ok for those looking in 60 years later, tut tutting, never having experienced terrorism themselves.

Jackie

How patronising can you get?

Terrorism didn't end 60 years ago. The IRA were spreading mayhem throughout my childhood and early adult life.

Dominic,
I don't think Jackie was patronising, I think that she was commenting on the fact that so many (for financial gain or otherwise) are setting the mores of today against what happened in the past when attitudes were different. We have become a more tolerant but judgemental society over the years but you can't judge the past with the views of today....if that makes sense.
What was acceptable then is not now but that doesn't make it wrong at the time.

[Dominic]

I think the problem with this thread as that there are about three different discussions going on at the same time.

[Jimgward]

June

Totally agree with you, it's ok for those looking in 60 years later, tut tutting, never having experienced terrorism themselves.

Jackie

How patronising can you get?

Terrorism didn't end 60 years ago. The IRA were spreading mayhem throughout my childhood and early adult life.

Dominic,
I don't think Jackie was patronising, I think that she was commenting on the fact that so many (for financial gain or otherwise) are setting the mores of today against what happened in the past when attitudes were different. We have become a more tolerant but judgemental society over the years but you can't judge the past with the views of today....if that makes sense.
What was acceptable then is not now but that doesn't make it wrong at the time.

So, was rape acceptable then and not now? How about interrogation with electrics until the person dies? Both allegations from Cyprus and many more....

I have no issue with battlefield killing and I know of the horrible effects it has on the soldiers. How about Mail Lai? A perfect example of when officers dont control young soldiers and they end up committing attrocities....

[Firefly]

Dominic

I didn't say that terrorism didn't exist today did I ? In what was I patronising ?

Were you or any member of your family a victim of the IRA, or indeed reside in Ireland during 'The Troubles' ?

My point was that people who have not experienced terrorism at first hand or been affected by it, cannot judge those who did experience it at the time, and their subsequent actions and feelings.

Jackie

[Jimgward]

Hudswell,I totally agree that troops in conflict areas, particularly against terrorists, have a very difficult time. Many will be young and with insufficient life experience to deal with the trying circumstances. It's why leadership is so important.

Would you try to defend rape, torture or brutality dished out in non-conflict?

[Devil]

served their country honerably

The problem is not with those. The problem is with those who were dishonourable and don't tell me there were none. No amount of training can ensure that, in the heat of the moment, a squaddie will act correctly and I could testify that, as an eye-witness here in Cyprus, some acted stupidly, even dangerously. Notice, I say 'could testify'; I have no intention of testifying because too much water has passed under the bridge in the last 62 years, even in this drought-ridden country.

[Jimgward]

Hudswell, I dont want to see lawyers getting involved many years later - it is too late - but when the government has colluded at the time - and the forces command - such as Bloody Sunday - then it takes so long and in that case, for example, officers and top commanders should still be taken to account as they colluded in covert ups.

The Cyprus situation, unfortunately the government of the time and since has not helped and I believe it’s too late.

Unless out forces act correctly, then they should be held to account - otherwise they are terrorists themselves.

[Lofos-Jan]

Not in the Cypriot Newspapers

I just wondered out of interest if you were a reader of the Cypriot newspapers or media?

Why do we always get so worked up about these things. An accusation is made, leave it to be fully investigated, people are found innocent or guilty. What is wrong with that?

Jeanne