Hurdles to electric car plan

[Paphos Life]

News that the government intends to relaunch a subsidy scheme to purchase electric and plug-in hybrid vehicles has renewed the debate over the cost of the vehicles, charging logistics and whether they offer true environmental benefits when virtually all of Cyprus’ electricity is produced by oil.

With conventional fossil-fuel vehicles being gradually phased out, industry insiders say a holistic range of support measures are vital to support the use of environment-friendly vehicles.

A €7 million car scrappage scheme that will subsidise the purchase of electric and plug-in hybrid electric vehicles (PHEVs) is currently being prepared and is expected to be submitted to cabinet for approval at the beginning of December.

The scheme will subsidise the purchase of an electric car with the optional scrappage of the owner’s old car which must be over a certain age (12 or 15 years – the details have not been finalised yet). The scheme also provides for the purchase of a used electric car up to two of three years old, or the scrappage of an old car and purchase of a PHEV.

Reports have said the subsidy would be €9,000 for the purchase of an electric car and an additional €1,000 for scrapping an old conventional one but the transport ministry would not confirm this, saying the details are still not final, while the cabinet might make changes to the proposal.

The scheme is part of the government’s goal for electric cars to make up one fourth of newly registered vehicles by 2030.

Transport Minister Yiannis Karousos said in July that 201 such vehicles had been registered so far this year.

In 2020, 77 new electric vehicles were registered. The goal is to have around 1,000 next year, including cars, motorcycles and electric bicycles, to gradually reach 36,000 in total by 2030. The goal also includes replacing all motorcycles used in the public sector with electric ones by 2023.

The ministry plans on introducing more schemes for the purchase of electric bicycles, motorcycles, buses, commercial vehicles, taxis, vehicles for disabled persons and large families.

An original car scrappage scheme to promote electric vehicles in mid-2020 had to be abandoned because of the economic impact of the coronavirus on the state budget. According to Christos Papamichael, advisor associate to the transport minister, the ministry had received around 1,000 applications at the time.

An important part of the new scheme is that it includes second-hand electric cars.

“After speaking with importers, it emerged it would not be possible for factories to manufacture and deliver a large number of vehicles within the next year, which would mean not meeting the goals set,” Papamichael told the Sunday Mail.

Subsidising the cost of a used electric car will perhaps give those on lower incomes the chance to purchase one. New vehicles are out of reach for many, with the smallest electric car models starting at around €26,000.

According to the pricelists of their importers, a Fiat 500e starts from €26,500 and a Volkswagen ID.3 which is also considered to be in the compact category but roomier, starts from €34,500. Medium sized ones such as the Hyundai Kona start from €33,900. The Nissan Leaf’s starting price is €34,500. The Mercedes Benz EQC (N293) which is branded as a ‘luxury SUV’, starts from €67,000. The Audi e-tron can be found from €78,000.

As regards PHEVs, a Renault Captur starts from €28,000, the Jeep Renegade from €36,900 and the Toyota Rav4 from €50,200. Prices vary of course, depending on size, model, battery range and other features.....

Read the article and chat about it below...

[Dominic]

Worth highlighting the last few lines:

But what lies ahead?

Diesel and petrol cars are obviously on their way out.

“Hybrids, plug-in hybrids, electric cars are here to stay for at least 10 to 15 years,” Ouzounian said. After that, he said hydrogen vehicles that emit water will start to rise in the market.

Some companies have already started to introduce hydrogen cars, though their widespread use in Cyprus and elsewhere would require a massive fuelling infrastructure, he added.

“The future is hydrogen,” Ouzounian said.

[Devil]

There is a total lack of logic in the thinking behind this article. What is being promoted, be it PHEV or pure electric is totally idiotic with the country's present infrastructure. Why? Because the electricity used to charge either of these types of car is essentially coming from a heavy petroleum product used to inefficiently generate the electricity, not to mention all the losses within the conventional power stations and the distribution. The only short-term solution which would be viable in this country would be the straightforward HEV, which would burn a light petroleum fuel and produce the mechanical energy exactly where it's required, without any significant distribution losses between the power station and the consumer. A modern mid-sized HEV can run at about 4 L/100 km with direct conversion from liquid fuel to transit – no power station or distribution losses. A PHEV would emit, from the power station, much more carbon per kilometre.

[cyprusmax47]

There is a total lack of logic in the thinking behind this article. What is being promoted, be it PHEV or pure electric is totally idiotic with the country's present infrastructure. Why? Because the electricity used to charge either of these types of car is essentially coming from a heavy petroleum product used to inefficiently generate the electricity

Perhaps you read the whole article. I think a scheme subsidising owners of PHEV's (A plug-in hybrid electric vehicle (PHEV) is a hybrid electric vehicle whose battery pack can be recharged by plugging a charging cable into an external electric power source, in addition to internally by its on-board internal combustion engine-powered generator) to install a photo-voltaic system in order to produce your own electricity, would be a good idea.
(however not only 1000 Euro as present already) Here this part of the article in the press........

"First, the ministry is working on a scheme for subsidising owners of electric and PHEVs to install a photovoltaic system and a wall outlet for charging their vehicles at home. This will run in tandem with the transport ministry’s scheme to purchase the vehicles. Eligible will be those who already own one or will get one through the upcoming transport ministry’s scheme." (https://cyprus-mail.com/2021/11/21/hurd ... -car-plan/)

Max

[Kili01]

The Govt scheme seems fine, until you look further into the implications of encouraging people to buy electric vehicles. I agree with Devil who pointed out some anomalies.
1. The scheme is premature here until the electricity generators used by EAC are powered by natural gas
2.Until the amount of Electricity output here shows a surplus of available electricity for all present users, it would be unwise to consider purchasing a vehicle which relies on an electric charger for battery power. Asking people to install a PV system in order to have a charging point, may be impractical for some, depending on type of accommodation and whether they have a private drive / garage. Also in bad weather or lack of daylight they may or may not be able to use it.
3. A friend of mine recently purchased a hybrid vehicle (a Toyota) which starts using petrol, but then switches to its battery which then charges itself while the car is in motion. Surely, that kind of vehicle is more practical here? She told me that it uses very little petrol.

Dee

[The Aquila]

It seems that Toyota are trying to jump the PHEV Market with their first mass production hydrogen model…

Twenty years ago, we introduced Hybrid technology with the pioneering Prius, and thanks to its flexible Hybrid architecture we were able to embark on another journey of innovation with Mirai: a revolutionary new car that makes less impact on our planet, but is guaranteed to leave an impression on you, on every journey.

It’s time to discover more about the hydrogen fuel cell vehicle that’s bringing the future into the present…

https://www.toyota.com.cy/new-cars/new- ... fullscreen

[cyprusmax47]

This is the problem for governments. At present, around half the price of petrol in Cyprus goes to the government by way of fuel duty and VAT. In the UK it is around 55% and this yields the government £21 billion.

Imagine the Gov gives 50% subsidy for a photovoltaic system to install (+charging point) and you produce free electricity for your e-car as well. If you don't produce enough for household and car you would only pay ca 3 cent per kWh. (providing you have credit) I for example could drive with my PHEV ca 50 km with 12 kWh which means roughly 40 cent. This would be a large minus for Gov and their taxes on fuel.

Max

[PolemIan]

Slightly off at a tangent but I’ve done a lot of maths on this subject for a potential purchase based on our own usage of both cars using a handy journey tracker app from Audi.

My conclusion is that a PHEV would cover about 75% of our journeys on electric power alone which would result in a very favourable overall MPG and could be powered by our net metering also at a very favourable rate with minimal need to use more expensive public charging points.

However, the premium (between 7-11k on the models we considered) for a PHEV over its standard petrol, diesel, mild hybrid or hybrid blows the economics side of a purchase out of the water for the sort of annual mileages we cover.

The PHEV make a lot of sense in the U.K.where there are lots of company cars and the BIK savings are very significant. The article above mentions the Toyota Rav 4, the Toyota web page shows the standard car starting from €36k and the PHEV from €53k, that’s a massive uplift. Unless you are so keen to green or do a massive mileage, for which a PHEV makes even less sense, €17k buys you a hell of a lot of fuel at current prices.

A full EV is also a bit of a challenge at the moment. There’s lots of talk in the U.K. media about the even higher purchase cost of these, but they completely ignore the data from SMMT that shows over 80% of private new car purchases in the U.K. are on PCP so the monthly cost impact helps to soften the blow. I’ve never been offered a PCP here, perhaps that will change. It could address the concerns that some have about being able to sell on a car after say 5 or 6 years to a buyer who may be worried about a battery reaching end of life, or paying for that myself if I keep the car long enough - again less of an issue if you only keep a car in a typical 3 year new car PCP.

The U.K. has seen a big shift in the last couple of years, perhaps we will see the same here, but in a much smaller market for new cars, which is a hurdle in itself, I’m not sure that we will see the same rate of change here.

Ian

[Paul]

Yes I saw it last night what an eye opener, and they said diesels are less polluting.
Paul

[Devil]

Yes I saw it last night what an eye opener, and they said diesels are less polluting.
Paul

I haven't seen the programme so please allow me to speak out of turn. In the context of Cyprus where most of the electricity is generated from petroleum, it's probably true that a diesel car may be less polluting than an electric car. Give or take an ounce or two, the diesel car may be running at an efficiency of, say, 35% (assuming no accessories switched on). It's just about feasible to get the same conversion efficiency from a "diesel"-type fuel to the heat in a conventional power station. However, that "heat" has then to be converted into electricity and the electricity distributed to where the electric car owner charges his battery, with the losses which may amount to 10% or more.

In a country like Norway or Switzerland, where the electricity is generated without burning fossil fuels, then the electric car wins hands down.

Many other countries lie between the extremes of no fossil fuels and partial use of fossil fuels and, then, the efficiency will depend upon the proportions and types of fossil fuel. France is a case in point, where most of the electricity is carbon-free but there is still some 20 to 25% generated from oil or, more probably, gas.

[PolemIan]

Interesting progragramme, 'Dispatches' on Ch4 last night, blowing the myth on exhaust by-products on EVs, which can be much higher than on Diesel cars. Also the 'range anxiety' experience by many EV drivers when they find charge points out of action, or won't accept their credit card.

You may be able to watch on catch-up, or On Demand.

Saw that, ironically just after I’d posted my comments. The points about about pollutants was carefully worded though, they were just talking about VOC rather than the usual co2 and nox emissions that I think have been the main focus of emission regs to date. No new car smell without a dose of VOC though!