The Rosy EU

[Firefly]

The way things are going, as I see it, the remainers will probably get their way, in spite of losing the referendum.

[Jim B]

Jon
I used to work in Europe and it wasn't anything like you make out, you needed work permits which were difficult to get hold of and once the job was finished you had to leave the country. You couldn't stay and look for another job and reside as you suggest. Education was limited to those who could afford it and there were few overseas opportunities as there were after joining the EU until deciding to leave.
You are making sweeping statements without any experience of what it was really like. I do have experience of life on the front line believe it or not, you don't have to be in the Military to experience it.
As I said, the social benefits for Joe Public are much better being part of the EU, sovereignty and autonomy don't put food on the table.
Jim

[tonee]

I lived in Cyprus pre EU,no problem,everything was a lot cheaper as well!

[Jimgym]

I am relaxed sitting in the sun. Having a refreshing Gin and Toni. aaah bliss.

Same here! Radio on and enjoying the beautiful late afternoon sun

[Jim B]

And I just watched Everton thrash Arsenal with a nice bottle of red.

Jim

[Jimgym]

And I just watched Everton thrash Arsenal with a nice bottle of red.

Jim

Just seen the result, well done Everton! ( sorry, off topic!)

[ApusApus]

No I did click the link, and read a few of the articles. I still can't see why you bothered to post the thread.

Obviously, with 43 replies and 403 views other members don't share your view, thankfully!


Shane

[Dominic]

That's just because people like to argue. In this case, part of the argument is questioning the point of the thread, so I wouldn't bother being to proud of those statistics.

[ApusApus]

As I said "other members don't share your view" whether you like it or not is up to you?


Shane

[kingfisher]

Jim B- I thought it funny that I, a knuckle-dragging leaver, spent the afternoon in the beautiful countryside enjoying the sunshine, the wildflowers and birds, while you were reclining on your couch with rattle, flat cap and red wine- [no brown and mild for you!!]- watching the soccer. Surely wrong way round!!
P.S. Firefly- not only is it not over yet- it hasn't even started! Brexit is only a symptom.
Jon.

[Jimgward]

I have yet to see anyone on here laud the EU, but many having loads to say negative about it.

Similarly, I have seen most laud the UK, and I and a few notable others, are the only ones to criticise it. Maybe from negative experiences or from realism that any form of government is pretty much open to question.

[Jimgward]

I have seen HiC and Jim B both say that the EU is not a utopia, but the best option for the UK. I.e. loads of faults, but more positives than negatives.

The people who denigrate the EU generally regard it as some unelected behemoth we have no control over - much like Rees-Mogg did, before admitting the UK can’t veto almost anything within it..... So perhaps we are as powerful within it as any and as guilty as any of the problems within it ...

[jeba]

>Dominic..jeba ..in my opinion the point of the thread is obvious. The title should give people a clue..or are some folk just being obtuse here.
In the first line we have..."Well, just when certain individuals on here like to think otherwise, maybe the glorious EU is not so glorious after all".
.....

....So though I cannot speak for Apus Apus my opinion is that the point of this thread, including links, that some, including you Dominic, apparently find so hard to grasp, is that all is not so "rosy" in the EU and some of it's member states.

However, the special reference to Germany makes it a bit less obvious to see his point. It would be a banality to merely state that the EU (or Germany) isn´t without problems. A bit like stating that it´s darker at night than during the day.

Maybe the OP could clarify whether he just wanted to point out what everybody knew anyway or whether he wanted to make a different point?

[Jim B]

Ronk
You make generalisations without any real insight to the reasoning of why people like me left the UK through necessity due to all our heavy industry either being sold off or shut down due to Thatchers policies of turning the UK into a service sector.

Jim

[Dominic]

As I said "other members don't share your view" whether you like it or not is up to you?


Shane

You must be really proud of the quality debate your opening post has generated.

[Devil]

Well, I'm pretty neutral (not really pretty at my age!) and I've posted for both camps. However, it seems to me, at this time, that the UK is unfit to govern itself with its shambolic performance and internecine splits in the parties. At the same time, the EU is smoothly conducting its business, calmly and with measure.

Which kind of governance is better?

[Firefly]

As I see it, Mrs May has to go and quickly if we are to have any chance of delivering Brexit. It seems that only she cannot see the mess she's making of the whole thing, we must have someone stronger to lead our Country at this time. Members of Parliament are bickering like children amongst themselves, it's shameful. As for an agreement with Corbyn, God forbid.

[Devil]

As I see it, Mrs May has to go and quickly

As I said before, both major parties are engaged in internecine warfare and the smaller ones are no better. If Theresa left, as you suggest, the country would be no better off because there is no one, no - not a soul, with a big enough wingspan wide enough to take over. No matter who, the result would be just as much chaos as now, if not more.

In my role as wise dictator, I'd call a general election with the proviso that no current or past MP would be permitted to be re-elected. Maybe with a new set of MPs, they would take their job seriously and work out an equitable solution, one way or another. I'll make one exception; I'd keep John Bercow as Speaker; he is the only witty bright light in a dismal, dark, chamber.

[Firefly]

Devil

You may well have the solution apart from Bercow, can't stand the man.

[Jimgward]

The big mistake, in my opinion, has been in trying to make the leap, without stages. We should have transitioned better. i.e. leave with Customs Union, changing to single market after 2 - 3 years