Ageism.

[Dominic]

Polly Toynbee was merely stating a fact. That isn't ageism.

Jamelia is an idiot.

[smudger]

Wow Lincoln, damned good post! I have felt that there was a lot of discrimination being posted about Prince Philip, but was unsure how to respond!

I so agree with much that you say, I do feel discrimination in the UK is completely off the radar, and the rhubarb talked about the old voters having no respect for the young voters and their views is simply crazy. We all began voting when we were 18, what the heck was the problem with it then? We respected the older population and their views, we didn't assume that our superiority made us better or more responsible people. Why do the youngsters of today feel they are the only ones with all the answers, and anyone over pension age hasn't a damned clue what they are taking about. How rude and insensitive is that??

I've never had any respect for Polly Toynbee. Her articles are simply designed to draw attention to herself and her views. Has she actually ever had a job aside from the drivel she writes in the media? I have several cats with the intelligence to write such articles if they could be bothered to learn how to use the pc or iPad.

The ageism rampant in the press and parliament at the moment has to stop. Sadly, squeaker Bercow is too embroiled with his Labour colleagues to even make a decision on what day it is, let alone judge on parliamentary procedures. He has to go - NOW!

Lincoln, as you might have guessed you have touched a massive nerve with me.

[smudger]

Dominic, what's your basis for saying Toynbee was stating facts ? Neither she nor you - unless you have access to huge swathes of population births, deaths and movements information - could possibly state this as fact. Neither could anyone assume that younger voters would replace older voters and switch the vote from leave to remain. Total assumptions on her part and yours. And I never assume that it takes much to be more intelligent than Toynbee I'm afraid.

[mike strand2]

If what Polly T says is correct (weird assumption!) then the UK ought to have repeat Brexit referendum at least every 10 years,

[ApusApus]

Polly Toynbee was merely stating a fact. That isn't ageism.

Jamelia is an idiot.

A pretty insensitive fact really …………………… that "old" people don't matter!

At the end of the day we all become old!


Shane

[Kili01]

I wish parents of some of these young people had taught them to respect their elders. Older people are much underated. They have the benefit of a lifetime experience. Their views on politics and government should be listened to and not ridiculed. They must be allowed to vote. It seems crazy to give something as important as a vote in national elections to school kids. Watching various general knowledge quzzes, such as Pointless or even Mastermind on TV sometimes I am appaled how little some of the younger contestants know about world affairs, geography, history etc. Soap opera stars,films , pop stars and football players seem to be what the young contestants can answer questions on. Dee

[zorbathejock]

The fact remains that the older you are, the less likely you are to see the consequences of your decisions It makes no difference if they are the right or wrong decisions ,it is your descendants who will have to live with them.

[Chaddy]

The trouble is with getting older is that everything seems to hurt,and what does,nt hurt does,nt work

[Dominic]

Dominic, what's your basis for saying Toynbee was stating facts ? Neither she nor you - unless you have access to huge swathes of population births, deaths and movements information - could possibly state this as fact. Neither could anyone assume that younger voters would replace older voters and switch the vote from leave to remain. Total assumptions on her part and yours. And I never assume that it takes much to be more intelligent than Toynbee I'm afraid.

My basis for saying Toynbee was stating facts was this: Toynbee was stating facts. Just look at how the actual votes were spread by age:

age.jpg (109.6 KiB) Viewed 5153 times

 
Clearly, as the older people die, and younger people come of age, the country will get more and more pro-Europe.

Now, as Shane said, she was being insensitive. No doubt about that. But to say she wasn't stating a fact is a big fat whopper.

Source: https://www.statista.com/statistics/567 ... gender-uk/


 

[Jim B]

The fact remains that the older you are, the less likely you are to see the consequences of your decisions It makes no difference if they are the right or wrong decisions ,it is your descendants who will have to live with them.

I would disagree with you there, I would suggest that the older you get the more your decisions are based on experience and a clearer understanding of the consequences of that decision, which inevitably are more reasoned. The trick is to balance those decisions with the passion that youth can bring to the party. In regard to Brexit the impression I get from the “youth” is that their desire to remain in the EU is a selfish one, based on their desire to travel and study unhindered throughout Europe, and to be honest not much more. It is the youth who will build on a future as we did when we were young, it is a challenge to be grasped not be rejected because its hard..Sometimes it is the hard things that are most worth fighting for and most rewarding.

Hudswell

I would suggest if trying to improve ones "Lot" is selfish then the vast majority of the members of PL are guilty of that. To aspire to travel and improve ones education and outlook on life is what gives a person experience and wisdom.
You should give the young a bit more credit; many grab the opportunities presented with both hands, opportunities that weren't available to most of us when we were young.

Jim

[WHL]

The future belongs to the young... It is what it is

[Jimgward]

I totally agree that wisdom comes with age - until age affects wisdom......

The point is that the older demographic are deciding the country's future, despite likely to not be affected by it.

The same happened in the Scottish Independence vote.

Now, one could argue that the wisdom of having been around pre-Common Market and EU allows older people to judge if we are better off before or after, but the world has changed so much and most older people are not directly affected by many of those changes.

We relied upon the Government to put together the parameters fro leaving and they have failed miserably. To the point that the cabinet should resign en-block - although I don't want that, as I don't want Corbyn to win! However, it's an omni-shambles.

Fox told us 2 years ago that countries would be queuing up to do trade deals with us. Not one. Nada. We would have to leave under WTO trading parameters which will be MUCH less beneficial than what we have now.

I think May should ask for a 12 month extension and should put together a proper leave deal, or have another vote. I am happy either way, if we avoid crashing out. She needs to appoint a Parliamentary, cross-party team and make sure it's managed well. She should concentrate on the other very important things, like Health & Care (£20bn extra over 5 years, is around 2.5% a year, BTW - it sounds a lot!) homelessness, the shambles of the benefits system, minimum wage issue and more.

And don't respond with Brexit means Brexit - nobody knew the implications of a no-deal brexit - nobody - not Farage, Cameron, Johnson, Gove or anyone else. Because it wasn't planned or thought through.

[Jim B]

Hudswell
I've worked with young people wise beyond their years and I've worked with people close to retirement who are daft as a brush; wisdom doesn't come with age.
Our parents and grandparents were a great example, two world wars and not to mention the numerous conflicts all over the place trying to hold on to countries that didn't belong to us. Let's face it , the young can't make any more of a mess of things than our and previous generations have made.

Jim

[josef k]

Lincoln states (or at least the article he copied states) that "old people may have more life experience in their little finger than the 16-year-olds some propose giving the vote". Obviously they will have more life experience having lived longer. But that doesn't mean they have wisdom or significantly more knowledge. I know quite a few old people who have little of either and are bigoted and xenophobic. I also know quite a few young people who have wisdom beyond their years, are very knowledgeable, and have a world view in their relations with others.
Old people are just old. Generally speaking, they have less energy, their reaction speeds are slower, they have more health problems, and are less prepared to take on new ideas or ways of doing things. A bit like me, in fact.

In Lincolns piece he refers to 16 year olds with an unstated suggestion they shouldn't have the vote. Could this be ageism?

[Dominic]

The young also lack all the hate and prejudices that some older people seem to possess.

[Firefly]

Dominc

Why do we have bullies at school ?

[galexinda]

From the comments above that is why it is so important that everyone is involved to get a broad spectrum of views. Just because I may be an older person doesn't mean that I am any less concerned about what happens on planet Earth after I die.

[smudger]

"Now, as Shane said, she was being insensitive. No doubt about that. But to say she wasn't stating a fact is a big fat whopper. "

I'm not in the habit of lying thank you Dominic.

But you know what they say, there are lies, damned lies and then there are statistics. I hate statistics, I just managed to scrape a pass in my accountancy studies, but it certainly taught me the veracity of that statement.

[Dominic]

Oh come off it! They are the election results! If you cannot fathom what they are saying then you are on pretty shaky ground when playing the "older people have wisdom" card.

[smudger]

No, they are not the election results Dominic! They are statistics supposedly compiled from the election results! Not the same thing at all.