Well that will get the whole country behind Brexit!

[Mark]

Yeah, sorry about that. Can't believe I missed you out.

Where is the pit??

[Mark]

Or what is the mysterious pit?????

[Dominic]

It is where I dump threads that get too bitchy. Or individual posts, if the need arises. It is a closed group, but if your comment gets moved there you get access to it. I can let anybody see it who wants to. I only hide it so that google doesn't index it.

If you never see the pit you have never missed anything.

[Mark]

I would like to see it, why the secrecy?
Not being awkward, just responsible enough to be curious.

[Dominic]

It is no secret. But when arguments occur and start getting personal, it gets very boring for the rest of the forum. Also, if somebody gets "non moderate" in the politic for moderates section, their post might end there.

[rogertcb]

Just going back to Tony Blair I was one of the minority at the time opposing the Iraq war but I do see parallels with Brexit.
The right wing and Murdoch press egging Blair on, the will of the people polling showed significant majority for war, misleading information on both sides, what do experts know, large majority vote in parliament, cosying up to the USA and ignoring the Europeans, and Hindsight being a wonderful thing with all those people supporting the war disappearing into the woodwork and becoming deniers.

Now for the good Blair did that everyone has forgot:-
Minimum Wage
Devolution for Scoland & Wales
Good Friday agreement & peace in Northern Ireland
Freedom of Information Act
Human Rights Act
Independent Bank of England
Civil partnerships (although he wimped on full 'marriage' this was progress)
Progress in reducing Child Poverty
Huge investment in education
Huge investment in NHS (+25% increase in real terms) - taking it to record high customer satisfaction, shortest ever waiting lists - very different to previous orsubsequent governments whowant to privatise NHS
Longest period of uninterrupted growth in UK history
Lowest unemployment for 50 years
Lowest inflation in decades
Lowest debt in decades (in 2007 debt was 2nd lowest in G8). Funny how people forget that.
Some people would say 'banning fox-hunting' for those who do care about animals it is a big one.
Positive & construcve relations with EUi
Kosovo & Sierra Leone. Not wholly good and definitely controversial, but many people would say (at least at the time) they were 'good interventions''

[keving]

Just going back to Tony Blair I was one of the minority at the time opposing the Iraq war but I do see parallels with Brexit.
The right wing and Murdoch press egging Blair on, the will of the people polling showed significant majority for war, misleading information on both sides, what do experts know, large majority vote in parliament, cosying up to the USA and ignoring the Europeans, and Hindsight being a wonderful thing with all those people supporting the war disappearing into the woodwork and becoming deniers.

Now for the good Blair did that everyone has forgot:-
Minimum Wage
Devolution for Scoland & Wales
Good Friday agreement & peace in Northern Ireland
Freedom of Information Act
Human Rights Act
Independent Bank of England
Civil partnerships (although he wimped on full 'marriage' this was progress)
Progress in reducing Child Poverty
Huge investment in education
Huge investment in NHS (+25% increase in real terms) - taking it to record high customer satisfaction, shortest ever waiting lists - very different to previous orsubsequent governments whowant to privatise NHS
Longest period of uninterrupted growth in UK history
Lowest unemployment for 50 years
Lowest inflation in decades
Lowest debt in decades (in 2007 debt was 2nd lowest in G8). Funny how people forget that.
Some people would say 'banning fox-hunting' for those who do care about animals it is a big one.
Positive & construcve relations with EUi
Kosovo & Sierra Leone. Not wholly good and definitely controversial, but many people would say (at least at the time) they were 'good interventions''

Roger, I admire your courage. There is no point asking people on this forum what they have forgotten about Blair's achievements, they will either deny them as achievements not worth talking about or attribute the "achievements" to some one else.

I think to put Blair into perspective with regards Thatcher, Churchill etc you need to post your question again in 50 years time.

[rogertcb]

You are probably right but it was the parallels with with Brexit I wanted to get across Roger

[keving]

You are probably right but it was the parallels with with Brexit I wanted to get across Roger

Yep, but I can't see that any Leavers on this forum will be enlightened enough, or willing enough, to see the point of making parallels.

[Cogs123]

Hi Rodger,
I agree, with your post, Tony Blair was one of the best Prime Ministers this country ever had, a great orator.
Yes he made a mistake over the Iraq war, but as you said, hindsight is a wonderful thing, how far back in history do we have to go demanding the heads of leaders that made the wrong decision?, which as you said, was backed by the majority at the time.

I've always found it fascinating how some ' run for the hills ' to save their own reputations/positions, to distance themselves from the backlash when the tide of public opinion turns.

I believe he has decided to intervene in the debate about how Brexit should be handled because of the inadequacy of the current Labour leader & Corbyn's obvious inability to be able to lead anything other than the Labour Party over the cliff
edge

[Jimgym]

Remainers and leavers BOTH only focus on what they want to, nothing to do with being enlightened. On here, I've noticed Remain voters only ever post negative British news, and Leave voters only ever post positive stories. People pick and choose what suits their argument, nothing more. It's not debate as such, more telling people they're wrong because of ( insert figures, reports etc.)

[ApusApus]

This could get into a very circular arguement ........... if it has not already done so!


Shane

[Dominic]

Isn't the whole "remainers" and "leavers" thing a bit redundant now anyway?

I was a remainer, and Lincoln beat Burnley 1:0 today. That's good news from the UK.

[Jimgym]

Isn't the whole "remainers" and "leavers" thing a bit redundant now anyway?

I was a remainer, and Lincoln beat Burnley 1:0 today. That's good news from the UK.

I wish it was, but sadly not. Both sides are entrenched in their opinions, and with Blair popping up and agitating I can only see the arguments and mud slinging continuing.
Not sure that a football result has much of anything to do with Brexit but thanks for trying......

[Pete G]

I'm surprised Blair hasn't come up with a dossier, compiled from unimpeachable sources, explaining how the British Economy could be destroyed within 45 minutes of the UK leaving the EU.

Worked for him last time, as I recall

[Cogs123]

Much like the fall in immigration/£350 Million per week for the NHS worked for the leave campaign. Sadly, subterfuge is a tool
used by all political parties in their quest to maximise support.

[Firefly]

To be honest I think Blair is in it for the money, (what else). Perhaps he thinks he can rule, sorry lead, the UK as PM, if he can make it to leader of the Labour Party again. He's a double dyed trouble maker, the sooner gone the better.

Jackie

[geoffreys]

To be honest I think Blair is in it for the money, (what else). Perhaps he thinks he can rule, sorry lead, the UK as PM, if he can make it to leader of the Labour Party again. He's a double dyed trouble maker, the sooner gone the better.

Jackie

I think forum member Lynsab would say he is just bonkers, like she thinks Donald Trump is.

Geoff.

[OhSusana]

To be honest I think Blair is in it for the money, (what else). Perhaps he thinks he can rule, sorry lead, the UK as PM, if he can make it to leader of the Labour Party again. He's a double dyed trouble maker, the sooner gone the better.

Jackie

I think forum member Lynsab would say he is just bonkers, like she thinks Donald Trump is.

Geoff.

Dear me. How sad. Do we have to resort to personal attacks in the "Politics for Moderates" section? Bitter....

[Lynsab]

Like Blair or loathe him, his speech has substance, he KNEW he'd be vilified by the media and others but still made the speech...

He's correct in much of what he says, although I've no stomach for another referendum as was before...

As so much of our media focuses on personality (even with a government so devoid of them) rather than policy, the kind of serious argument he was mounting can easily get lost amid the noise and the hate.

Brexit has divided the country across its nations, regions and generations, contrary to May's claim to have 65 million people behind her...that's NOT the case.

There's no monopoly on patriotism and that there might be a patriotic case for wishing to reverse the referendum decision, if enough people feel it will be damaging to the UK. I'm not one of them as it happens, as I'm getting on with my life which for now is good retirement...but IF I pay any more at all for living without the EU...I will fight back large and loud alongside many more...

Those in power who try desperately to shut down opposing opinion a bit like Trump in the US and Putin in Russia are the ones we should be watching....