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Hudswell wrote: ↑Fri Sep 07, 2018 9:01 am
I may be wrong Jim, but with EU citizens I thought the same rules applied as to your own citizens...and yes the Benefit culture in the UK is far too lax and it was taken advantage of, especially when the gates opened. Let's face it, you are not going to,flock to Cyprus for,the benefits are you?
Hudswell
The UK could have introduced the same terms and conditions for EU Immigrants that Cyprus introduced when joining the EU but decided not to. David Cameron was showboating when he went to Brussels prior to the referendum demanding changes to "Free Movement" by just introducing the same T&C's that most countries in the EU.
Below are comments made by Mogg about EU Citizens working and living in the UK>
JACOB REES-MOGG claims European Union citizens living in Britain will have no more rights after Brexit than those from other countries.
The 1.7million Britons who live in other EU countries will also lose their rights when the UK leaves the union, according to the Tory Brexiteer.
‘I do not believe there should be any special terms for EU migrants,’ he wrote to Labour peer Lord Adonis. ‘Once we have left the EU there will be no legal basis to treat them differently from migrants from non-EU countries.’
Hudswell
I would be interested to know what benefits you get off the Cypriot State; unless you contribute you don't get; its very straight forward.
Any medical treatment provided over retirement age in Cyprus is paid for by the British government for British Citizens on a reciprocal agreement.
I will repeat again, the same requirements are available to the UK As used in Cyprus.
1) Medical Insurance
2) A Rental Agreement or proof of property ownership.
3) Sufficient funds or income.
4) Undesirables can be deported back to their own countries.
The UK is not part of the Schengen Agreement so therefore has full control of its own borders but chooses to perform only a cursory check on people entering from the EU.
As I keep saying, the information is out there but many either can't understand it or don't want to.
Jim
Hudswell
Again: the situation where there is free NHS treatment for those ordinarily resident in the UK is down to the British govérment. It is not the responsibility of the EU to tighten the British Benefits System or lax control over medical treatment. You cannot point the finger at the EU for the failures and shortcomings of successive BRITISH Governments.
It isn't racism to be concerned by immigration, but it has to be appreciated that most - 99% - of immigrants add to society, pay taxes and so on. The problem we all have, is unfettered access to benefits immediately, I would have them pay health insurance for 5 years at least....
Hudswell
If the UK followed Cyprus's example and everyone who moved there had to have medical insurance there would be little pressure on the NHS . The same goes for accommodation.
Cyprus has a population of around 1.1 million of which about 10% are immigrants; considering the size of their annual budget in comparison with the UK they appear to manage much better don't you think?
Hudswell
I do get it.
In Cyprus if you don't qualify for free medical treatment, you pay either with Insurance or cash. I understand that is the same situation in many other EU countries so why can't the UK do that? Same with Social Insurance; if you don't contribute you don't get and when you do get you only get for six months.
Cyprus is a good example, the Immigrant EU population of the ROC is over 13% whereas in the UK the EU population of about 3 million is less than half a percent 0.454% to be exact. The same rules and regulations applied in Cyprus and many other EU member countries could be applied in the UK but the UK government chooses not to and then implies it's all the EU's fault.
You keep sidestepping the issue. You seem to want to make the NHS free at the point of care for everybody, and deal with the inevitable health tourism by not allowing immigration.
I am saying, allow immigration, but make economic migrants pay their way until they have sufficiently contributed to society. This is what every other country in the EU seems to do.
Web Designer / Developer. Currently working on Paphos Life.
Living in Polemi, Cyprus with my wife and daughter.
Dominic wrote: ↑Sat Sep 08, 2018 3:35 pm
You keep sidestepping the issue. You seem to want to make the NHS free at the point of care for everybody, and deal with the inevitable health tourism by not allowing immigration.
I am saying, allow immigration, but make economic migrants pay their way until they have sufficiently contributed to society. This is what every other country in the EU seems to do.
Hudswell wrote: ↑Sat Sep 08, 2018 2:45 pm
There is a lot wrong with the NHS...but the basic principle of it is sound...to prevent suffering and save lives...or would you rather go down the US route or many EU countries where people cannot afford insurance...and live in fear of getting ill?
You could simply make it mandatory to have health insurance and if you can´t afford it the state will pay for your insurance. That´s how it´s done in Germany.
Dominic wrote: ↑Sat Sep 08, 2018 7:28 pm
I understand perfectly. You are the one completely missing the point.
Really? I assume you know how the UK funds the NHS, through taxes, originally NI, although I doubt if that is purely the case now. Explain to me, how under "freedom of movement" the UK can charge EU immigrants extra for the NHS? Or are you saying that all UK citizens should pay extra for the NHS, an an insurance policy, like the US for example? So that we can charge the same for EU citizens? Non EU citizens, if they use the NHS are required to pay...but they will be treated in an emergency...that's the nature of the NHS, the issue is the services are being overwhelmed by the sheer numbers of EU citizens moving to the UK, it doesn't really matter if they work and pay tax, the U.K. Is being swamped and that is one of reasons why people voted to leave the EU, because immigration has to be controlled.
Simple. Insist they have insurance.
Web Designer / Developer. Currently working on Paphos Life.
Living in Polemi, Cyprus with my wife and daughter.
Hudswell, you have entirely the wrong idea, there is nothing to stop the UK applying a requirement for all EU citizens to pay for the NHS treatment, while still free to UK Citizens..... as happens in MOST other EU countries...... what’s so difficult to understand?
Jimgward wrote: ↑Sun Sep 09, 2018 12:24 am
Hudswell, you have entirely the wrong idea, there is nothing to stop the UK applying a requirement for all EU citizens to pay for the NHS treatment, while still free to UK Citizens..... as happens in MOST other EU countries...... what’s so difficult to understand?
Jim W
That's what I've been trying to get cross for the last three days
They are UK rules, NOT EU rules. The UK can have exactly the same rules as Cyprus does where people registering have to have to prove they have medical insurance but choose not to. Nothing at all to do with the EU.
Jim
Hudswell
In Cyprus it is free up to a certain salary threshold but that's not the dispute. You are implying the EU is basically forcing the UK to provide free medical treatment to EU citizens because of freedom of movement and that is not correct. Any host country can set their own criteria for registration (like Cyprus did) but the UK chose not to bother.
Hudswell wrote: ↑Sat Sep 08, 2018 11:01 pm
so what you are suggesting is that all UK residents have Health Insurance?
Please don't mix UK Citizens and UK Residents in this discussion. I think what is possibly being put forward is that UK citizens get free treatment under the NHS but UK Residents (unless they are citizens) do not automatically have that right and have to have private medical insurance, which, apart from UK state pensioners is the general situation here in Cyprus. That the UK government does not follow this is, in my opinion, a mistake.
This situation, along with several other conditions/restrictions is allowed under the EU but not followed by the UK government to the detriment of the UK social welfare system.
If such restrictions had been followed then maybe the Brexit referendum would have had a different outcome.
