Are those opposed to Trump simply half-wits, fishwives?

[Jimgym]

Happy said

"The only trend I can discern is that they were all Brexiteers. I suspect the very persuasive arguments from keving, OhSusana, Jim B, JimGWard and one or two others got to them in the end...and they resigned their memberships rather than admit defeat "

Yes I'm sure you would love to think that Lloyd but somehow I don't think that was the case.

It's a pity they have gone, it made for some very interesting debate and comment.

[geoffreys]

Considering we are expecting a bill of between 40/60 Billion for the privilege of leaving Lloyd, I think you can safely say we are already worse off.

What exactly is that money for?
Geoff.

[Jimgym]

Clearly Geoff you neither read or watch the news. This sort of sum has been very widely reported.

Who says Britain is going to pay this? Just because the EU asks for it, doesn't mean they are going to get it!

The way the real World works, if the UK refuses to pay there could be consequences

True, and consequences can go both ways. If the EU thinks it can threaten Britain then May can hit back. Something I am sure neither side want.

[cyprusgrump]

Considering we are expecting a bill of between 40/60 Billion for the privilege of leaving Lloyd, I think you can safely say we are already worse off.

What exactly is that money for?
Geoff.

More threats from the EU...

They claim that when the UK leaves it will have to pay (insert a huge number of €uros here, it changes every report) back to cover pension liabilities, etc.

Of course, in that case as a net contributor to the EU and its infrastructure the UK could rightly claim back its share of all those shiny parliament buildings and other assets...

It is just a negotiation ploy from our EU 'masters'....

[cyprusgrump]

A Pyrrhic victory if ever there was one.

Jim

It doesn't seem very Pyrrhic so far...

PWC’S ‘SERIOUS ECONOMIC SHOCK’ TURNS INTO BREXIT BOOM

Before the referendum the EU-funded PricewaterhouseCoopers wrote the infamous CBI report claiming Brexit would cause a “serious economic shock”, costing £100 billion and 1 million jobs. Today they have performed a screeching u-turn, now claiming Brexit will lead Britain into an economic boom. In March last year, PwC thought a Leave vote would cause a drop in UK living standards, GDP and employment and warned GDP growth “could be seriously reduced — and possibly be as low as zero in 2017 or 2018.” Today, PwC are forecasting the opposite: they now think Britain will enjoy GDP growth faster than any other major advanced economy in the world over the next three decades. They say GDP growth will outstrip the US, Canada, France and Germany with average annual rate of 1.9%.

[Dominic]

It is good news, however, until Brexit actually happens it is all a bit meaningless.

[Jim B]

There is more to the Brexit than just financial aspects and it is quite obvious that the country is split down the middle. The social damage is a festering sore and sides are drawn, it looks like the standing Government is riding roughshod over the concerns of those who voted to remain and just a few right wing fanatics are dictating policy. That is why I stated it was a Pyrrhic victory because I don't believe it was worth the cost of the social damage to the British people.

Jim

[Cogs123]

The 40/60 Billion I mentioned earlier is the sum the EU expects the UK Government to pay towards commitments they agreed to before the Brexit vote.
It has been assessed that the UK's share of EU assets would amount to approximately 3Billion, mere pocket money compared to what the UK are going to have to ' cough up '

[Jimgym]

They can rightly expect what they like, the reality may well be markedly different.

[Jimgward]

They can rightly expect what they like, the reality may well be markedly different.

Just because you say it, wont make it true....

[Jimgym]

They can rightly expect what they like, the reality may well be markedly different.

Just because you say it, wont make it true....

Of course, and I will repeat your sentence right back at you, which was my original point!

[geoffreys]

The 40/60 Billion I mentioned earlier is the sum the EU expects the UK Government to pay towards commitments they agreed to before the Brexit vote.
It has been assessed that the UK's share of EU assets would amount to approximately 3Billion, mere pocket money compared to what the UK are going to have to ' cough up '

That is a different story from the one Cyprusgrump posted earlier.
You cannot both be correct!
So I still don't understand why UK should pay anything in order to Brexit.

Geoff.

[Cogs123]

I take it from your post that you are implying that I am incorrect then Geoff?, perhaps cyprusgrump is better informed than
Andrew Neil's Sunday Politics on the 5th of Feb. when he interviewed Charles Grant, ( the Director of the Centre for European Reform ), & Henry Newman who runs the Think Tank Open Europe.

Google the interview

[Jimgym]

I take it from your post that you are implying that I am incorrect then Geoff?, perhaps cyprusgrump is better informed than
Andrew Neil's Sunday Politics on the 5th of Feb. when he interviewed Charles Grant, ( the Director of the Centre for European Reform ), & Henry Newman who runs the Think Tank Open Europe.

Google the interview

Taken from Guardian, who quoted FT:What will be the Brexit bill?
Britain’s exit from the European Union will be like many divorces: there will be a bitter argument about money. According to the Financial Times, Britain will have to pay €20bn (£18bn) to leave the EU, taking into account the UK’s share of the EU’s unpaid bills and pension liabilities. The German magazine Wirtschaftswoche suggested in August that the Brexit bill could be as high as €25bn. There are many figured being floated, the above are just 2 more to add to the mix.

[Cogs123]

Hi Jimgym,

Regardless of how many Billions the final total will be, it is still shocking how much the UK will have to pay the EU., it will take years to pay it off, still, I suppose it will just get swallowed up into the National Debt which currently stands at approximately
2 Trillion...I don't see an end to austerity measures any time soon...

[keving]

Hi Cogs, I'm not putting you on the spot here. Not at all.

But when we talk about "austerity measures" what are we talking about, and who is affected by these "measures" the most? Is it the poor or the affluent? The young or the old?

[Cogs123]

Hi Keving,

In my opinion the most likely to be the worst affected are the poorest in our society as is so often the case, it has been suggested that prices will rise & although this affects everyone, inevitably it will be the least well off that will shoulder the heaviest burden.

[keving]

I agree. When we talk about "austerity measures" it rolls off the tongue so effortlessly, without thought.

"Austerity measures" is an invented PR word. It means cuts in public spending, cuts in public services, cuts in benefits, cuts in social care, cuts in NHS funding. All of which affect the poor and vulnerable much more than the affluent.

"Measures" sounds like its meant to be temporary. There is nothing temporary about these cuts, they are meant to be permanent. This is the idealogy of the Conservative party and nothing at all to do with membership of the EU.

[Cogs123]

Many have blamed our membership of the EU for the problems we face with housing, the NHS & social care when in reality they have been caused by our own Governments policies/underfunding. It served them well to allow the EU to take all the flak for their savage cuts, it will be interesting to watch how they deal with any criticism once we leave.

[Jimgym]

Many have blamed our membership of the EU for the problems we face with housing, the NHS & social care when in reality they have been caused by our own Governments policies/underfunding. It served them well to allow the EU to take all the flak for their savage cuts, it will be interesting to watch how they deal with any criticism once we leave.

What policies? Do you think Labours policy of unfettered immigration has anything to do with the housing/NHS crisis? Which again brings us back to possibly why the Brexit vote won.