Are those opposed to Trump simply half-wits, fishwives?

[keving]

Not necessarily a convergence that I agree with. For example, I cannot understand for the life of me why such a high proportion of the electorate aged over 60 vote Conservative ... or voted Brexit.

Guess what?

There are millions that can't understand why you would vote otherwise...

And at the GE and the referendum, they outvoted you...

I was under 60 at the time of the last general election and the referendum, so that might account for it.

Although I passed 60 a few months ago, I am not that far down the road to Damascus.

[OhSusana]

Thank you for some fascinating comments; particularly, Lloyd, Keving.

I looked up unemployment in the US. In mid 2016 there were 51 counties with unemployment over 10%.

While the national poverty rate is 15.6%, among the unemployed the poverty rate is 32.3%. This is especially the case in the counties with the highest unemployment rates. Jefferson, Mississippi, for example, reported an unemployment rate of 15.3% — far higher than the 4.7% national jobless rate — and an extraordinarily large 47.9% poverty rate, the highest in the country.

Places with high unemployment rates have, in addition to higher poverty rates, lower incomes overall. In a handful of the counties with the 51 highest employment rates, the typical household makes less than $24,000 annually, or less than half the $53,482 national median household income...
http://247wallst.com/special-report/201 ... mployment/

I don't intend to do it, but it would be interesting to equate unemployment rates also with support for Trump.
Though I expect a higher correlation between education and support for Trump (inverse, of course).
It would be interesting to know if Trump intentionally targetted uneducated white male voters. Whatever, this is where most of his support came from.

I have travelled a bit around the US. Made it to 33 states during my time there. More than most Americans. Recall also, most Americans do NOT have a passport. ... They have never been abroad. A large number do not even know where Europe is on a map of the world.
Having said this, some of the country folk I met there were wonderful, salt of the earth.
A problem is - they tend to believe anything they are told. Very trusting. But - and a big BUT - they do NOT trust central government one bit.
And Trump certainly targetted this to his advantage.

[keving]

You had it bang on in your earlier post Susana ... Clinton was cerebral, Trump appealed to the emotion ... He followed the Brexit campaign and did a Brexit times 2

[OhSusana]

You had it bang on in your earlier post Susana ... Clinton was cerebral, Trump appealed to the emotion ... He followed the Brexit campaign and did a Brexit times 2

Thank you. But it is not me, but the author of the article. What I like is the way he stays clear of politics per say, and analyses the data. Raw data.

With regard to Dominic's comment about those with degrees, I agree.
My best friend - in my youth - in the UK has a PhD in Biochem. But he is so right wing, I don't know what party he belongs to! I'm sure he supported Brexit. And maybe was in the Bullingdon Club with Boris.
And a very good friend in the US - works for NASA - PhD - Ivy League - in Maths. Brilliant guy. Amazingly right-wing also!
But what the statistics look at are the overall figures; the millions, not the individuals.

[keving]

I had a best friend who has got a PhD in Economics, entitled to call himself Dr as opposed to my Mr. Even though Ive got a degree in Economics it felt like an 'O' Level compared to his knowledge. He was like a mad genius, incredible sharp brain. He was Margaret Thatcher's biggest fan (very unatural in my simple way of thinking), along with being a follower of right wing American economists like Friedman, whereas I was Keynes.

So, the higher qualification ... right wing, me .. centrist

[kingfisher]

OhSusana (8.55pm) - "What I like is the way he stays clear of politics per say"
Should be "Per se" (from the latin "By itself".) Sorry to be pedantic, but I can see you like to get things right!

[OhSusana]

Thank you, Kingfisher. You are entirely correct.
I knew it was wrong when I wrote it, but forgot to check the correct spelling later on.
Actually I also wrote "he" and I am not sure if the article was written by a man or a woman, so you might want to pull me up on that also )

What really annoys me is when people call me "stupid" and spell the word wrong.
Or call me a "half wit". This basically is calling me stupid. Synonym. If you are going to call me stupid, then at least spell the word correctly. I am sure you take my point. That is what really annoyed me. Apart from the fact that such low-down terms demean the person who writes them; and lowers the quality of debate on this forum.

A question for you please -
I and Lynsab - two females - were called "Fish wives". This term appears to be intentionally directed at us.
Do you regard this as sexist? And if so, do you condemn such comments?

I have seen such sexism, rascism, bullying and the like on the other Paphos.. forum. Just look at Lynsab's final post and the absolute low-life comments that follow. Such childish behaviour is unbelievable to me. And these are grown up men doing this. And there the moderator - if you can call him that - does nothing.
I hope this forum does not degenerate in the same way. (Obviously my own personal opinion. )

[johnoddy]

" (Obviously my own personal opinion. )" I think we gathered that.

[smudger]

Y'know, I've always respected Keith's posts on these forums, but nothing has ever convinced me that he was sooooo right as the psycho babble on this thread. Coven comes to mind, although I'm sure they would make exceptions for the men involved!!

[OhSusana]

" (Obviously my own personal opinion. )" I think we gathered that.

True! I can hope and ask for intellectual debate, but - that may be neither forthcoming, nor indeed possible from some. That I understand, and that Trump understands also.

And now he's trying to close universities down? mmmm...
He knows his main support comes from un-educated white males. So - what to do to increase support? Close universities down that oppose his views.
It looks for the moment that the threat to cut off funding to Berkeley has been thwarted. But -
The Threat is there! And Trump is all about threats, and basically appealing to the primitive male. The aspiring alpha-male. The uneducated white male.

Donald Trump 'cannot follow up threat to cut federal funds from UC Berkeley' after violent protest against Breitbart editor
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 61836.html

Berkeley - a beautiful campus. My friend from NASA - an immigrant, of course - took me there. (Yes, NASA does have base in SF. )
And so the threat exists for other universities.
As the author quoted in my starting post concluded from the statistics -
the uneducated white males were more likely to support Trump.
Close some universities down - people become even more poorly educated - and it would seem logical that support for Trump would grow.

[Dominic]

I have had to delete a comment on this thread. I know this is the Politics, not the Politics for Moderates section, but name calling like that will not be tolerated. Grow up and present your argument properly. If you can't counter the argument without using language like that, you've kind of lost the argument before you've begun.

For the record, I disagree with the idea that lower educated = Trump / Brexit. It is natural that people more affected by a policy would want to vote for somebody saying they will change that policy. But lots of people who were highly educated voted for them too. And what is the alternative? Disallow anybody with an IQ less than 150 of a vote?

[keving]

Dominic, you know that disallowing everyone with an IQ of less than 150 would disenfranchise 98.5% of the population, so why suggest such a high level?

What about disallowing anyone with an IQ of less than 90? I guess that might disenfranchise 25% of the population ... but maybe this section of the population can't be bothered to vote anyway ... so we might as well leave things as they are?

[Dominic]

Well, once you have established that intelligence is a factor, the logical conclusion is either:

A. Only allow the most intelligent a vote.
B. Stop being so silly and let everybody have a vote anyway.

It is just as obscene to disenfranchise 25% as it is to disenfranchise 98.5%

[keving]

OK, but without any restriction, 30% of the electorate dont vote. What has caused their disenfranchisement? Should we have compulsory voting in order to get election results which more reflect the entire electorate?

[Dominic]

I've often wondered about compulsory voting. I can see the attraction, but I would like them to test it first. For a start, in situations where compulsory voting is in place, I would like to see if there is a correlation to the winner and their position on the ballot paper. If it turned out that whoever was the first name on the sheet won it, there would obviously be an issue.

I know it wouldn't be as obvious as that, but I am sure there are some hacks that could be exploited.

[keving]

Australia has compulsory voting. I dont see anything wrong with the idea.

For everyone that might get irritated by the idea that they are forced to vote, there might be someone who wants to learn more about politics .. a father or mother who might even talk about politics to their children

You know, there were an estimated one million people: who voted in the referendum, who never previously voted in a general election and who are unlikely to vote again ever. I personally know one of them - he voted for the first time in his life at the age of 51 and I pretty sure he won't be bothered to vote again

[cyprusgrump]

Australia has compulsory voting. I dont see anything wrong with the idea.

I was told that Cyprus had compulsory voting...

...but EU laws overruled the Cyprus laws so you don't have to vote any more...

My best friend Kevork told me that... who remembers Kevork...?

[ApusApus]

And what is the alternative? Disallow anybody with an IQ less than 150 of a vote?

Is that a good IQ or bad!

Seriously though, why not implement a system where by you lose the right to vote if you don't?


Shane

[keving]

And what is the alternative? Disallow anybody with an IQ less than 150 of a vote?

Is that a good IQ or bad!

Seriously though, why not implement a system where by you lose the right to vote if you don't?


Shane

Shane, you're ahead of me.

I collect Virgin air miles and British Airways air miles. All miles are valid for 3 years and then you lose them ... unless you accumulate further air miles .. and then your original airmiles are extended ... ad infinitum.

Sorry, probably lost you all with the above.

Yes, you retain the right to vote for 10 years from age 18 (should be 16) and every time you actually vote your right is extended by a further 10 years.

Lose the right to vote and you lose it forever.

Will sort out the goats from the sheep.

[ApusApus]

Shane, you're ahead of me.

I collect Virgin air miles and British Airways air miles. All miles are valid for 3 years and then you lose them ... unless you accumulate further air miles .. and then your original airmiles are extended ... ad infinitum.

Sorry, probably lost you all with the above.

Yes, you retain the right to vote for 10 years from age 18 (should be 16) and every time you actually vote your right is extended by a further 10 years.

Lose the right to vote and you lose it forever.

Will sort out the goats from the sheep.

Never knew that about air miles! But I don't yet think it applies to the UK voting system, well not according to the Electoral Commission http://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/f ... l-election!


Shane