Whatever your political persuasion, defend your corner here. All we ask is that you voice YOUR opinion, rather than just post a link to a half-hour youtube video. Politics can get a bit lively, and if you prefer a less combative debate, please post in the Politics for Moderates section instead.
keving wrote: ↑Thu Feb 02, 2017 3:03 pm
Geoff, you can't say that "everyone" in the UK has been affected, as "every one" would, by definition include me, and I have told you that I have not been negatively affected. I note that you have extrapolated from your family to the whole of the UK. That's a bit of a leap of faith even given the most rigorous statistical analysis!
OK, great. I take it that 5,000-9,000 EU immigrants pa would be a good target for the Government to aim for? The government does need to publicise its targets does it not, so that they can be held to account?
If you live in the UK you have been affected. If you do not live in the UK probably not (or not as much).
If you do then you are paying in your taxes to fund the costs of all the migrants.
To me that is a negative!
Geoff.
Jimgward, why do you feel that a country ruling itself is outdated?
People apparently voted for Brexit for a multitude of reasons, many of which have been expressed on here.
If as you say you want transparency then perhaps you ought to ask the Govt. as nobody on here can say what will happen as we aren't in charge.
Just because you don't understand why people feel Britain was better pre EU doesn't mean they aren't allowed to feel that way. We can't understand everything in life.
Immigration is a huge worry to many, particularly in light of the terrorist attacks in Europe. I'm not saying I agree or disagree, however people duo have concerns and they presumably felt they weren't being listened to.
Jimgym wrote: ↑Thu Feb 02, 2017 4:44 pm
Jimgward, why do you feel that a country ruling itself is outdated?
People apparently voted for Brexit for a multitude of reasons, many of which have been expressed on here.
If as you say you want transparency then perhaps you ought to ask the Govt. as nobody on here can say what will happen as we aren't in charge.
Just because you don't understand why people feel Britain was better pre EU doesn't mean they aren't allowed to feel that way. We can't understand everything in life.
Immigration is a huge worry to many, particularly in light of the terrorist attacks in Europe. I'm not saying I agree or disagree, however people duo have concerns and they presumably felt they weren't being listened to.
I want people to have opposing views. Life wouLed be boring otherwise....
I completely want people to express those views as everyone is entitled to their views, even me!
As to the notion of a country ruling itself.... yes, and we do.... always have... but we were a member of a union, just like Wales is a member of the UK union.... and California is a member of the US union...
Obviously, the majority don't agree with me and voted for that, which I accept.
However, if you look at voting trends, almost to a woman and man, those over 50 voted for Brexit and those under 60 voted to remain. That's significant.
Road Warrior wrote: ↑Thu Feb 02, 2017 6:54 pm
I do find it amusing that Brits, who choose to live in other countries, like Cyprus, consider themselves to be "Ex Pats", yet they, oftentimes, consider foreigners, choosing to live in Britain, immigrants.
The present govt. in the UK has successfully mounted a propaganda campaign against so called immigrants and "benefit cheats", blaming them for our economic woes, rather than the banks, bankers and companies like Amazon, Boots, Costa Coffee, Cadburys and Starbucks which, I believe pay little or no Corporation tax year on year.
Will be interesting to see what happens when benefits are reduced to next to nothing, immigration is reduced Britain leaves the EU and things don't actually get better, who will be the next group to be persecuted ?
An ever increasing elderly population putting enormous pressure on the NHS. Better treatment keeps people alive longer, the population becomes even more elderly. It a vicious circle.
Won't be far off before we get a ratio of 1 pensioner for every 2 workers.
And who is paying for the NHS? Its tax and NI from current workers.
More people retiring, fewer workers. Its a time bomb. Where are we going to get the workers from to shoulder the burdon of keeping retired people alive. Those people aged over 65 who predominately voted Brexit because of immigration.
Whisper it quietly, we need immigrants to expand the workforce to generate the required tax and NI receipts so that the NHS can cope with the demand from the elderly.
Road Warrior wrote: ↑Thu Feb 02, 2017 7:24 pm
Indeed, we do need immigrants, right now, 40% of the workforce in the NHS, are immigrants, the govt is actively trying to recruit 400 GP'S from Poland, but you won't see much about it in the main stream media. The govt. has pulled off a massive con trick but, they can't keep it secret for ever!
Can you believe that there is an acute shortage of Physics and Maths teachers in schools? Where are we going to get them from? You guessed it, the EU ... Czech Republic, Poland, Germany ... that's if they want to come here ( and who would ) ...
Road Warrior- re. “ex-pats”or “immigrants”?
An immigrant into the UK today is usually understood to be either an economic migrant who wishes to better him/her self financially, or an asylum seeker; neither are usually high net worth individuals bringing in large sums of money and who are self-supporting financially and often medically. On the other hand, my understanding of the term “ex-pat” is someone, often retired, who chooses to live in a country without making any financial demands on it, is a net contributor and does not seek citizenship necessarily. I see a distinction in the terms often used. Do you refer to yourself as an “immigrant”?
kingfisher wrote: ↑Thu Feb 02, 2017 8:01 pm
Road Warrior- re. “ex-pats”or “immigrants”?
An immigrant into the UK today is usually understood to be either an economic migrant who wishes to better him/her self financially, or an asylum seeker; neither are usually high net worth individuals bringing in large sums of money and who are self-supporting financially and often medically. On the other hand, my understanding of the term “ex-pat” is someone, often retired, who chooses to live in a country without making any financial demands on it, is a net contributor and does not seek citizenship necessarily. I see a distinction in the terms often used. Do you refer to yourself as an “immigrant”?
"An immigrant into the UK today is usually understood to be either an economic migrant who wishes to better him/her self financially"
Usually?
I would think all migrants move with the intention of having a better life, a lower cost of living etc
So, if you move to better yourself financially (lower cost of living etc) you are an 'economic' migrant?
So what does that make pensioners who emigrate to Cyprus. A majority move to Cyprus because their State Pension goes further in Cyprus (lower rent, council tax, food bills, etc) because of the lower cost of living. They move from the UK to Cyprus to better themselves financially. I have yet to meet a UK pensioner in Cyprus who moved here to be worse off.
So, are UK pensioners in Cyprus 'economic migrants' or maybe you would prefer just 'migrants'?
Rightly or wrongly, and I find the term"ex=pat" a bit daft, the latter has come to mean a person who has exercised choice backed by self-finance regarding their destination. An immigrant is usually understood to be a person who has been more or less compelled to move to a more prosperous country for financial, medical or personal safety reasons, all quite understandable. Is this a migrant forum or an ex-pat forum? Do you refer to yourself as an immigrant? (for the second time).
An expat is a worker who has moved abroad on a fixed term, temporary, contract, with every intention to return to his own country at the end of his contract.
A person who leaves a country and moves to a new country with the intention of that move being permanent is an immigrant.
My family moved to Australia in 1967. As far as the UK Government was concerned we emigrated. As far as the Australian Government was concerned we were immigrants. We moved to Australia with the intention of it being a permanent move. I don't recall Australian people calling us expats. And my dad was never poncy enough to refer to himself an expat.
We knew our place and didn't needed to big it up with some colonial reference as to our status.
Jimgym wrote: ↑Thu Feb 02, 2017 4:52 pm
People do have opposing views, can't see anyone trying to change that and they do express them, hence these forums!
You said it was outdated for a country to want to rule itself, but you didn't say why?
Significant why?
Sorry to fire questions at you, I am interested though!
I think I answered that... as in, we do rule ourselves in the UK at present, but also as part of a union or federation.....
Telling Geoff he is talking rubbish is not debating moderately. I will remove that post later as I am on a tablet at the moment. But I will remind people that the moderate stands for moderate behaviour. If you want robust, take it to politics.
Edit
I actually managed to remove it using my tablet and my big clunky fingers.
Web Designer / Developer. Currently working on Paphos Life.
Living in Polemi, Cyprus with my wife and daughter.
I've worked abroad for many years and all the Brits I work with refer to themselves as Expats; most of them have homes and families in the UK. We all work abroad to give our families a good life just like the "Immigrants" who go to the UK.
I've read an article from several different sources and this morning in the Independent that the Immigration criteria that Cyprus uses, i.e. health insurance, enough funds to live, a rental agreement are part of EU requirements but Theresa May never introduced the Registration Process in the UK. She was totally incompetent when she was Home Secretary and a total failure; it appears Britain has unfortunately got what it deserves.
Jim B wrote: ↑Fri Feb 03, 2017 10:30 am
I've worked abroad for many years and all the Brits I work with refer to themselves as Expats; most of them have homes and families in the UK. We all work abroad to give our families a good life just like the "Immigrants" who go to the UK.
I've read an article from several different sources and this morning in the Independent that the Immigration criteria that Cyprus uses, i.e. health insurance, enough funds to live, a rental agreement are part of EU requirements but Theresa May never introduced the Registration Process in the UK. She was totally incompetent when she was Home Secretary and a total failure; it appears Britain has unfortunately got what it deserves.
Jim
This is one thing that has always annoyed me. It is as if the UK deliberately chose to create problems for itself.
It is the same with the so-called health tourism. That wouldn't be such a problem if the NHS bothered to claim the money back.
Web Designer / Developer. Currently working on Paphos Life.
Living in Polemi, Cyprus with my wife and daughter.
Jim B wrote: ↑Fri Feb 03, 2017 10:30 am
I've worked abroad for many years and all the Brits I work with refer to themselves as Expats; most of them have homes and families in the UK. We all work abroad to give our families a good life just like the "Immigrants" who go to the UK.
I've read an article from several different sources and this morning in the Independent that the Immigration criteria that Cyprus uses, i.e. health insurance, enough funds to live, a rental agreement are part of EU requirements but Theresa May never introduced the Registration Process in the UK. She was totally incompetent when she was Home Secretary and a total failure; it appears Britain has unfortunately got what it deserves.
Jim
wow. Good points. Can a leopard change her spots?!
Jim B wrote: ↑Fri Feb 03, 2017 10:30 am
I've worked abroad for many years and all the Brits I work with refer to themselves as Expats; most of them have homes and families in the UK. We all work abroad to give our families a good life just like the "Immigrants" who go to the UK.
I've read an article from several different sources and this morning in the Independent that the Immigration criteria that Cyprus uses, i.e. health insurance, enough funds to live, a rental agreement are part of EU requirements but Theresa May never introduced the Registration Process in the UK. She was totally incompetent when she was Home Secretary and a total failure; it appears Britain has unfortunately got what it deserves.
Jim
You'll be looking forward to a UKIP Govt in a few years time then Jim (?)
Geoff.
P.S. Watch for the Stoke by-election result.
