An explanation of the post Brexit mentality

[Conoflex]

Yes I know admin asked for no links, but this is a very easily digestible and thoughtful piece that seems to hit a few nails on the head. It certainly struck me as typical of many people and views I have encountered since the UK voted to leave

http://www.spectator.co.uk/2017/01/what ... education/

[Miloman]

Excellent explanation in my view.

[cyprusgrump]

Yes I know admin asked for no links, but this is a very easily digestible and thoughtful piece that seems to hit a few nails on the head. It certainly struck me as typical of many people and views I have encountered since the UK voted to leave

http://www.spectator.co.uk/2017/01/what ... education/

Oh, what an excellent article!

[kingfisher]

Attending a meeting a few months ago, and with a couple of minutes before the start, I turned to a woman next to me, and politely asked where she was from. She replied that she was a (holidaying) London Cypriot who lived and worked as a primary school teacher in London. I asked how many different nationalities were in her class- she said that they were almost all from different ethnicitys, and rattled off half a dozen for starters.
She was very apprehensive about the future and it quickly became apparent that she was fearful about the outcome of UK leaving the EU.
She enthusiastically warmed to her subject as she laid into those “responsible” for what she feared was impending doom for both herself and her charges. She was adamant there was NO future for the children. Economically and socially Armageddon loomed large.
At this point I confessed to having voted for Brexit. She paused slightly and frowned then lunged into an irate diatribe, describing ALL those who voted “out” as “thick” and “uneducated”.
(Doubtless, like most professional Cypriots I’ve met, her degree was crowned by the “de rigueur” Ph.D!!)

[Conoflex]

I had a house guest recently -a product of the modern education system and society

She got the GCE's she got the degree, she has a good job (indeed all de rigeur amongst the aspiring middle classes) but doesn't have a clue how the world works and has never been challenged to think for herself in her entire life. Lots of opinions on everything but when questioned about them just not able to justify them other than believe that they were right because that was what she had been taught. Linking the various tenets made most of her opinions self contradictory, and by the end of the evening I thought her head was going to explode.

By the time she pays off her student loan she will we about 35 and still won't be able to get a mortgage on her salary in the area where she rents/lives and works and will struggle to be able to afford to have kids (not that is a woman's only role of course, but it is an social necessity ) She and her boyfriend's combined income would not buy a bedsit in London - to pay their mortgage on top of their other living costs would leave them with virtually no disposable income. They are very happy, but it strikes me as a bit of a rat race existence and they will probably have to work into their 70's. Without the bank of mummy and daddy (and they both have money in there) then I wouldn't fancy their lot.

I had a very privileged education, but I learned more working in a bar than I ever did in a lecture hall and the most intelligent people I have ever met never went to university !!!!! If it wasn't for the fact I never had to study to pass exams and university was to me in effect a 4 year paid holiday (you used to get grants and no tuition fees) I would have considered the biggest waste of time of my life in a "learning"sense. Given that I spent pretty much every day getting up to all sorts of "extra curricular" activities that Oliver Reid would have been proud of I am lucky to say it was time well spent. I never used my education at all, started work at 27, and retired at 48 (should have been 40, but I got married and my overheads went up ), never went bust, paid all my debts and treated my staff extraordinarily well.

Most of my contemporaries are still working away at their degree based professions and will have to do so until the are at least 65- but at least they could buy their house and afford to pay for their kids. The debt saddled products of the Blair/EU social engineering project gone wrong will have to work until they are about 75 with less reward than my generation had - at least most of them don't have the gumption to work out they got shafted

[cyprusgrump]

I had a house guest recently -a product of the modern education system and society

She got the GCE's she got the degree, she has a good job (indeed all de rigeur amongst the aspiring middle classes) but doesn't have a clue how the world works and has never been challenged to think for herself in her entire life. Lots of opinions on everything but when questioned about them just not able to justify them other than believe that they were right because that was what she had been taught. Linking the various tenets made most of her opinions self contradictory, and by the end of the evening I thought her head was going to explode.

By the time she pays off her student loan she will we about 35 and still won't be able to get a mortgage on her salary in the area where she rents/lives and works and will struggle to be able to afford to have kids (not that is a woman's only role of course, but it is an social necessity ) She and her boyfriend's combined income would not buy a bedsit in London - to pay their mortgage on top of their other living costs would leave them with virtually no disposable income. They are very happy, but it strikes me as a bit of a rat race existence and they will probably have to work into their 70's. Without the bank of mummy and daddy (and they both have money in there) then I wouldn't fancy their lot.

I had a very privileged education, but I learned more working in a bar than I ever did in a lecture hall and the most intelligent people I have ever met never went to university !!!!! If it wasn't for the fact I never had to study to pass exams and university was to me in effect a 4 year paid holiday (you used to get grants and no tuition fees) I would have considered the biggest waste of time of my life in a "learning"sense. Given that I spent pretty much every day getting up to all sorts of "extra curricular" activities that Oliver Reid would have been proud of I am lucky to say it was time well spent. I never used my education at all, started work at 27, and retired at 48 (should have been 40, but I got married and my overheads went up ), never went bust, paid all my debts and treated my staff extraordinarily well.

Most of my contemporaries are still working away at their degree based professions and will have to do so until the are at least 65- but at least they could buy their house and afford to pay for their kids. The debt saddled products of the Blair/EU social engineering project gone wrong will have to work until they are about 75 with less reward than my generation had - at least most of them don't have the gumption to work out they got shafted

I don't regret not doing the university thing - I started work at 16, started a business at 30 and retired at 42.

[Conoflex]

The above link contained the following quote

"They think that because they studied English literature at Durham they understand the world better than a plumber in Croydon"

Not only is that highly unlikely, it should also be noted that any plumber worth his salt anywhere in Britain earns a lot more than an English teacher as well

As "Judge Smails" brilliantly said in Caddyshack when Danny said he couldn't afford to go to university: "The world needs ditch diggers too"

We probably now have more British lawyers than British brickies in the UK- which explains a lot when you think about and we lead the world in media studies graduates (it's just a pity we want to gag the press)

[cyprusgrump]

The above link contained the following quote

"They think that because they studied English literature at Durham they understand the world better than a plumber in Croydon"

Not only is that highly unlikely, it should also be noted that any plumber worth his salt anywhere in Britain earns a lot more than an English teacher as well

As "Judge Smails" brilliantly said in Caddyshack when Danny said he couldn't afford to go to university: "The world needs ditch diggers too"

We probably now have more British lawyers than British brickies in the UK- which explains a lot when you think about

I remember reading about a huge surge in students taking forensic science degrees because of the number of 'crime' programmes on TV that featured them.

There will be more forensic scientists coming out of university than can ever be employed in the field...

[Conoflex]

An "EU national" friend of mine in Cyprus sent his child to the UK for higher education. The course studied is one that does not have enough graduates to supply the necessary demand for them in the UK , so the NHS paid all the tuition fees for this course (about £24,000 in total?)

The child in question has not worked in the UK, does not want to work in the UK and never has to work in the UK- these skills are sought in various private clinics throughout the world and not one penny of those earnings will ever go the the British exchequer

I have no problem with those involved in taking advantage of this because that is the "rules", but the rules are a joke- in this case an expensive one at the UK tax payers expense.

Not applicable in this case, but the number of student loans that are never going to be repaid for all sorts of reasons is going through the roof - much of the outstanding and growing £82 billion is going to have to be written off

[cyprusgrump]

An "EU national" friend of mine in Cyprus sent his child to the UK for higher education. The course studied is one that does not have enough graduates to supply the necessary demand for them in the UK , so the NHS paid all the tuition fees for this course (about £24,000 in total?)

The child in question has not worked in the UK, does not want to work in the UK and never has to work in the UK- these skills are sought in various private clinics throughout the world and not one penny of those earnings will ever go the the British exchequer

I have no problem with those involved in taking advantage of this because that is the "rules", but the rules are a joke- in this case an expensive one at the UK tax payers expense.

Not applicable in this case, but the number of student loans that are never going to be repaid for all sorts of reasons is going through the roof - much of the outstanding and growing £82 billion is going to have to be written off

Indeed... you can pretty much guarantee that is taken out to study a course with 'studies' in the title will never be repaid...

[outasite]

The liberal elite in the 2000s.......

"And then after getting my first in media communications I came out of uni into the real world, and do you want fries with that?"

[kingfisher]

Just a minute outasite- this is ALL ABOUT ME. I may have left uni with my Ph.D in media studies, but I'm buggered if I'm going out to work yet- the bank of Mum and Dad are financing another gap year when I will be roaming round "having a relationship" with Europe. the reason I voted "stay" was so that nice eastern Europeans could serve me french fries......

[OhSusana]

Yes I know admin asked for no links, but this is a very easily digestible and thoughtful piece that seems to hit a few nails on the head. It certainly struck me as typical of many people and views I have encountered since the UK voted to leave

http://www.spectator.co.uk/2017/01/what ... education/

Thank you Conoflex. Interesting article.
Who is the author? A banker. A former banker. And that is it. And then writing articles about finance.
It doesn't look like he ever got a degree )) Chip on the shoulder? mmmm... Currently writes for the Express. Say no more...

The comments are interesting.
The Daily Telegraph reported that people with degrees were more likely to vote to remain.
A degree is a good indicator of intelligence.
Of course, you can get intelligent people without degrees. And you can get fruitcakes with degrees.
But in general - a degree is a good indicator of intelligence.
So - what does this thread show? That people without degrees have a chip on their shoulder about people with degrees who voted to remain?

[OhSusana]

I spoke to a lot of ex pat Brits in Cyprus concerning the Brexit result, to a man (or woman), they were delighted at the result, their reason, they said, there are too many foreigners, in the UK. I asked them if they understood "irony".

Brilliant.

[cyprusgrump]

Of course, you can get intelligent people without degrees. And you can get fruitcakes with degrees.
But in general - a degree is a good indicator of intelligence.

I'd have to say that the evidence I've seen from universities in the UK and the US recently would indicate precisely the opposite...

Jazz hands? No staging? Safe areas? Banning 'red tops'...? Are these really the intelligent people that our future will depend on...?

[OhSusana]

Read some articles about IQ, intelligence, and degrees.
- rather than the evidence that you have "seen".
There is lots of info on the internet.
There are some incredibly intelligent people without degrees, and some incredibly stupid people with degrees - but -
but -
given a million people... on average, there is a strong correlation between people with degrees and intelligence.

[cyprusgrump]

Read some articles about IQ, intelligence, and degrees.
- rather than the evidence that you have "seen".
There is lots of info on the internet.
There are some incredibly intelligent people without degrees, and some incredibly stupid people with degrees - but -
but -
given a million people... on average, there is a strong correlation between people with degrees and intelligence.

I'm sure that used to be the case... But now we have targets for university admission and degrees in pointless subjects with names that often end in 'studies'...

Mot of the graduates will never earn enough to pay off their loans - how intelligent is that...?

How clever are the people that take out massive loans to learn subjects that will never gain them employment that would enable them to earn enough to pay back their massive loans...?

[Dominic]

Of course, you can get intelligent people without degrees. And you can get fruitcakes with degrees.
But in general - a degree is a good indicator of intelligence.

I'd have to say that the evidence I've seen from universities in the UK and the US recently would indicate precisely the opposite...

Jazz hands? No staging? Safe areas? Banning 'red tops'...? Are these really the intelligent people that our future will depend on...?

Most people go to university to learn. Only a small proportion get involved in the political side of things. This is why the loons get away with daft rulings. Everybody else there just gets on with what they have to do.

[Firefly]

You can have as many degrees as you like, it does not and never will, go hand in hand with common sense.

Jackie

[Dominic]

You can have as many degrees as you like, it does not and never will, go hand in hand with common sense.

Jackie

This is very, very true.