Title deeds

[trevnhil]

I have a question about Title deed which I will add here rather than start a new title deed thread..

Is it possible to have ONE title deed for a property in JOINT names??? This would then be like a joint bank account, if one person dies the other would take all the property ..

[Jimgward]

I have a question about Title deed which I will add here rather than start a new title deed thread..

Is it possible to have ONE title deed for a property in JOINT names??? This would then be like a joint bank account, if one person dies the other would take all the property ..

Yes - but you need a Cyprus will sealed and registered at the court

[trevnhil]

We do both have 'Mirror' Cyprus will with our solicitor.

[PW in Polemi]

Actually, unless the one person named on the title deeds owns 100% of the property, then one copy of the deeds is issued in each owner's name, showing whether they own 50%, 33% or whatever percentage.

Where a property is owned, for instance, jointly and equally by husband and wife, then 2 bits of almost identical paper are usually issued, one in Mr's name showing 50/100 and one in Mrs' name showing 50/100.

Just remember, if you die owning anything in Cyprus, your estate has to go through probate. This can be a lengthy and costly process.

[trevnhil]

Actually, unless the one person named on the title deeds owns 100% of the property, then one copy of the deeds is issued in each owner's name, showing whether they own 50%, 33% or whatever percentage.

Where a property is owned, for instance, jointly and equally by husband and wife, then 2 bits of almost identical paper are usually issued, one in Mr's name showing 50/100 and one in Mrs' name showing 50/100.

Just remember, if you die owning anything in Cyprus, your estate has to go through probate. This can be a lengthy and costly process.

This is what I have always believed, and in fact my wife and I each have a deed for our share of the property..
But of course, as far as I know, the surviving person would have to go to probate to get the deceased share transferred into their name. Which as you say can be expensive, and a long process.

The reason for my question is because I was with someone last week, who said they had one deed with two names on... They are going to check this though

[PaphosAL]

Is the subtle legal difference between JOINT property ownership (50/50, with the survivor automatically inheriting the other half owned by the deceased after they pass away), and:

TENANTS IN COMMON ownership? Usually 50/50, but each co-owner can will their share (in their lifetime) to whoever they like, with a covenant in the Will that the survivor is entitled to carry on living in the property for the remainder of their life, but paying all the bills.

Wifey and I switched to the latter back in 2007, based on Daily Mail advice regarding future care home planning for the autumn of our lives. Did the whole thing using downloaded online Land Registry forms and their form-filling instructions for free!

Since Gina passed away in July, our daughter Erika (who is sole executor) is now going through the LR process to switch her Mum's 50% share into her name, so she and I will still be Tenants in Common here. £60 fee for this, plus a few quid for a local solicitors ID verification.

My will leaves my 50% of the house to Erika. So when I croak, she will go through a similar process again with LR, and then own the lot! What was the point in all this, I hear you ask?

Well, if our house was still in JOINT names, I would now own it 100% after the death of my wife, would I not? Say I had to go into a Care Home in the future... The local Council would force a sale of my house, in order to pay for the care home costs until however long it takes for me to croak. Leaving my daughter with little or no inheritance and a big funeral bill...

But with TENANTS IN COMMON active for the last 10 years, the council cannot force the sale of HALF of a house in this situation, can they?

Okay, this is all UK LR property stuff. I was just thinking that similar principles might also apply over there in Cyprus...

AL

[Lofos-Jan]

I have a question about Title deed which I will add here rather than start a new title deed thread..

Is it possible to have ONE title deed for a property in JOINT names??? This would then be like a joint bank account, if one person dies the other would take all the property ..

It's a really interesting and important question Trev. please post an update if your friends do go to check.

Jeanne

[trevnhil]

It is important, and I suppose I should ask our solicitor. But if and when I get any more info I will post it.

[Rita Sherry]

Jeanne & Trev

The one Deed with both husband and wife's name is how it is done in the UK but I am not sure re the procedure in Cyprus so I would advise checking with your Cypriot solicitor particularly bearing in mind the inheritance laws in Cyprus are different than the UK - very similar to those in France.

Rita

[trevnhil]

That is obviously the correct thing to do Rita. I was just hoping that someone in the group may have had One Deed with Two names on it.

[Rita Sherry]

Perhaps someone might come along later (it is the week-end and people may well be out) but if your friend checks he may well come back on the point otherwise a telephone call or visit to your solicitor may be on the cards.

Rita

[Kili01]

This was my experience. Initially my husband and I had a joint title deed with both our names, for our property in Cyprus. Our solicitor also advised us to have mirror wills which we did.
Some years later when my husband was in the later stages of an incurable disease, we saw our solicitor again. With our change in circumstances, she suggested that my husband made over his share of the property. I thus became sole owner. Our wills were changed again to reflect this. When sadly he died a year later, there was no probate. That saved a long and drawn out legal procedure.
Obviously, this arrangement might not suit everyone, but in our case it made no difference to us continuing to live there.
The important thing is to make sure that you receive expert advice from a good local solicitor. There are several English ones, ours included who are well experienced in how the English and the Cypriot legal systems differ and who can give you the best advice to suit your individual circumstances.
Also the laws of inheritance in Cyprus are quite different to those under English law.
Dee

[PW in Polemi]

Also the laws of inheritance in Cyprus are quite different to those under English law.
Dee

Yes, they are. Even if you are co-owner of a property and the beneficiary under the other co-owner's will, under Cyprus inheritance law, it does not follow that you automatically become the sole owner. Various family members of the deceased (children or siblings, for example) apparently have a prior claim over the deceased's share of the property. If you are not Cypriot, you can opt for your Cyprus wills to be enacted under the inheritance laws of your country of origin, but you have to specify this in your will.

As Dee said above, only by transferring ownership prior to death can probate be avoided. Currently, the Cyprus government is not charging transfer fees where the property ownership is being moved from spouse to spouse, or parent to child/ren. If, as Dee did, you have advance notice of impending death, this helps somewhat in a horrible situation.

[trevnhil]

This was my experience. Initially my husband and I had a joint title deed with both our names, for our property in Cyprus. Our solicitor also advised us to have mirror wills which we did.
Some years later when my husband was in the later stages of an incurable disease, we saw our solicitor again. With our change in circumstances, she suggested that my husband made over his share of the property. I thus became sole owner. Our wills were changed again to reflect this. When sadly he died a year later, there was no probate. That saved a long and drawn out legal procedure.
Obviously, this arrangement might not suit everyone, but in our case it made no difference to us continuing to live there.
The important thing is to make sure that you receive expert advice from a good local solicitor. There are several English ones, ours included who are well experienced in how the English and the Cypriot legal systems differ and who can give you the best advice to suit your individual circumstances.
Also the laws of inheritance in Cyprus are quite different to those under English law.
Dee

This also is our understanding of how things work... However it can be problematic deciding which person will have their name on the deeds. At one time it would have seemed better to put the property in my wife's name because I have had a heart attack...
But now the balance may have changed somewhat, and it may be better to put the house in my sole name..
These are difficult decisions to make... Hence my question about joint names on ONE deed.
However from the replies it would seem that no one else cansay that they know of one deed with joint names on it, like a bank account.

So, as the advice given says, see your solicitor. But you still have the decision to make as to who has their name on the deed, if you just want a single one to do away with Probate.

[SALLYMAY]

My husband passed away suddenly last year and I am in the process of transferring our deeds to my name. My solicitor has presented me with a bill for €4000 to do so. Can this be right?

[SALLYMAY]

Thank you

[Ginahill]

This is my individual experience of transfer of our apartment title deed into my sole name as recently as last week which hopefully will help others decide what to do as we advance in age. Probate has just been granted following the death of my husband in November 2014. The same Cypriot solicitor who supported us through process of writing mirror wills in 2007 was requested to carry out this process. I had to be proactive all the way through the process trying to gain updates & in frustration September this year asked a Cypriot friend to speak to my solicitor -- outcome "be patient there is a backlog at tax office!" There were no complications in our case as we had sold our car, closed our bank account & no pensions were ever paid into Cyprus bank accounts. (Sadly my husband had vascular dementia). As well as death certificate, copies of title deeds you do need a UK document that shows no tax is due on estate. Re costs well I was told they are based on a formula dictated by Cyprus Law Society ie 5% of my husbands 50% of ownership of apartment plus admin costs. So last week I received solicitor's invoice which was almost double what I expected to pay so I challenged it via email requesting source of valuation of our property & quoting formula! Guess what happened next the phone rang here in UK & it was solicitor apologising for mistake in calculation & reducing bill by approx 40%!
Apologies about length of this post & thankyou Dominic for accepting my membership today but I thought my story although slightly of thread would be of interest to some members.

[trevnhil]

Ginahill, thank you for posting this, it is something that may of us will have to go through..

[Dominic]

Happy to have you on board, Ginahill, and thank you for the informative post.

[Ginahill]

Apologies don't know how to send members personal messages yet SO
* Austin7 - yes the solicitor was executor of the will - I forgot to mention that our son & daughter had documents to sign stating they were willing to sign over 25% each share (according to Cypriot inheritance law) of their father's 50% to me!
*Trevhil & Lincoln thanks wasn't sure whether to post or not!
* SALLYMAY Please private message me if you think I could answer any further questions for you or just give you support as this has been a lonely, sad journey at times!