Paradise Papers, Hidden Millions and Apple's secret bolthole revealed

[PhotoLady]

I was surprised to have seen not a single mention about the Paradise Papers on the forum today.

The first part of the TV programme was aired last night with the second part being shown at 9pm this evening (Panorama).

Now you can find out all about those offshore accounts and the £10m our Lizzie has put away for a rainy day too. No secret is safe, so it seems...

Who is being exposed?
The offshore financial affairs of hundreds of politicians, multinationals, celebrities and high-net-worth individuals, some of them household names, have been revealed. The papers also throw light on the legal firms, financial institutions and accountants working in the sector and on the jurisdictions that adopt offshore tax rules to attract money. The top stories so far include:
Apple has protected its low-tax regime by using the Channel Island of Jersey
Formula 1 champion Lewis Hamilton avoided tax on his £16.5m luxury jet, the papers suggest
The Queen's private estate invested about £10m offshore including a small amount in the company behind BrightHouse, a chain accused of irresponsible lending
One of President Donald Trump's top administration officials kept a financial stake in a firm whose major partners include a Russian company part-owned by President Vladimir Putin's son-in-law
A Lithuanian shopping mall partly owned by U2 star Bono is under investigation for potential tax evasion
How three stars of the hit BBC sitcom, Mrs Brown's Boys, diverted more than £2m into an offshore tax-avoidance scheme
One of the world's largest firms loaned a businessman previously accused of corruption $45m and asked him to negotiate mining rights in a poor central African nation

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-41880153

The latest on Apple is here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-41889787

[Dominic]

Jersey was a tax haven? Who knew?

Sorry, but until people are actually prosecuted, this is all just hot air.

[Jimgward]

HMRC uses more resources and spends much more money, chasing the waiters not declaring tax on tips, than chasing companies like Apple, Google, Vodafone, Starbucks and the like.... Where 1000,s of millions in unpaid taxes could be gained.....

But, for some reason, prosecuting small individuals is somehow more attractive....

[WHL]

Looks like the biggest benefits scrounger family who live down the Mall . have alot in common with Arthur Daly,

[PaphosAL]

Agreed, Jim. A bit like the UK fuzz always targeting soft targets, to meet their targets.

As for the good old days of 'confidential' offshore banks in Jersey, Guernsey, IOM, forget it! They all now share tax info with HMRC if you live in UK (or wherever you live in the EU) whether you like it or not...

Best bet, at present, IMHO, is to move to TRNC and bank offshore. Or convince your offshore bank that you live outside of the EU. Tricky, but not impossible with a good imagination..

AL

[Dominic]

Alternatively, pay your taxes like you are supposed to.

[smudger]

'Our Lizzie' or 'the biggest benefits scrounger down the mall' actually pays over to the UK Gov the equivalent amount of tax due on these investments.

[Dominic]

I was responding to Al, who was suggesting (albeit jokingly I presume) that you should move to the North to avoid paying tax.

But my opening comments pretty much echo yours; until somebody is actually prosecuted, this is all hot air.

[Kili01]

Exactly, Dominic. At present the law allows people to invest offshore in a way that is completely legal. Another point to think about is that in the case of the multi national corporations and the very wealthy, it is obviously important that they should be pay their tax liabilities in accordence with laws in the country that they operate in, am all in favour of that. But at the same time not to impose such punitive conditions that they simply move their businesses out of the UK. Especially with the threat of a Brexit looming.

Dee

[Dominic]

You can operate completely legally and still be immoral though. Knowingly exploiting a loophole in order to avoid paying taxes that will help build hospitals etc may be legal, but sure as heck isn't morally right.

But until those loopholes are closed, we can do nothing. Actually that is not true. We could stop buying their products. But are Apple's competition any better? It will be interesting to see if any info emerges about Samsung. And what about Google?

[PW in Polemi]

OK I'm going to stick my head above the parapet here, fully expecting to be shot at!

The Channel Islands (2 separate jurisdictions of the island of Jersey and the Bailiwick of Guernsey) are NOT tax havens. They simply have a lower tax regime than that of, for instance, the UK. Anybody who wants to open an account with, say, the Guernsey branch of Nat West, will soon find out how much compliance and anti-money laundering regulations there are. And you have to provide your tax identification number from the jurisdiction in which you reside, in order that information may be freely exchanged on interest paid to you, etc.

So, as has been pointed out, both in the Panorama programme and above, none of the people/firms mentioned have actually broken the law. They have simply taken advantage of being able to move their monies to a lower tax regime.

Think about your own positions. Why did you move to Cyprus? Better weather? More relaxed lifestyle? Lower cost of living? Less tax to pay? If you benefit from the latter reason (5% tax on your UK pension?), then you are in effect no different to any of those mentioned (and apparently castigated) in the Panorama programme.

Oh, and one more point. The Channel Islands' financial sector generates a lot of jobs, many of which are filled by people from the UK.... Get rid of the financial sector and all those people have to return to UK, and the Channel Islands themselves, being Crown Dependencies, may well have a call upon UK govt for financial assistance to stay afloat.

[Dominic]

We didn't even know what the tax regime in Cyprus was when we decided to move here. And besides, that's the whole point. The companies DON'T move to the countries they pay their taxes in. Otherwise the Channel Islands would be rather crowded.

[PhotoLady]

Did anyone watch both of the programmes yet?

If not, I suggest you do.... Some interesting dodgy deals going on out there.

[Jimgward]

I haven’t, yet, watched the programmes but will....

As Dominic says, morallly its wrong.... and as Hudswell rightly says, close the loopholes....

Unfortunately, the loopholes are found by those within HMRC and government and they sell themselves to the private sector for very highly-paid jobs, whilst their old colleagues try to close the loopholes, but without the support of government, as they have vested interests - such as George Osborne, whose family exploited an offshore company to sell land in the UK and maximise their entitlement.

The head of HMRC used to be employed as a business owner consulant who paid himself dividends and maximised his own tax benefits.

It’s time an independent (hic) panel in Westminster investigated properly loopholes and that laws were changed quickly. It is entirely wrong that the large companies and extremely wealthy can be so morally corrupt.

[Poppy]

Apparently the Isle of Man has been incorrectly apportioning tax rates and I believe the highest allowances are only for business and not personal and this is what has been abused. Addendum : Just heard it again and it is actually concerning refund of VAT as with Lewis Hamilton and his private jet. Apparently in this instance VAT should only be refunded when the jet is for commercial services .I believe in this instance alone they are talking 3 million and there are many planes registered there taking advantage of this inorrect practice.

[Jimgym]

What makes me laugh in those whole scenario is Bono, the oh so righteous one shouting about how Governments should give more to the poorer nations, whilst doing his utmost to pay as little tax as possible. I detest hypocrites like him.

[Ramone]

One of the best decisions I have ever made was to move to Cyprus & save a fortune paying taxes in the UK.
It got to a point 11 years ago where the UK Government wanted me to pay nearly 50% tax off me.
I now pay tax in the country where I work for 6 months of the year( Middle east ) & live in Cyprus for 6 months of the year.
I don't live in Cyprus enough in one year to pay tax. ( their rules not mine).
Or, & by the way, I rarely visit the UK.
Happy Days.

[Firefly]

I thought that the law of the land was that if money is earned in the UK, tax is paid on it in the UK. Why is money not taxed at source, so that millions can't be shipped out to a tax haven.

As for HM, if she was unaware of her money going abroad, she obviously doesn't need it, her people however do, starting with the NHS.

Jackie

[PhotoLady]

Hiya Jackie,
one of the main concerns and it isn't that of our majesty but those of the likes of the actors in Mrs Brown's Boys (and many many others) who sell their assets to another company but then receive an amount back on a monthly basis (just like an income) but in the form of a "loan". Therefore, it's not classed as an income so no tax is payable. These people are knowingly and actively seeking to avoid paying tax....

This is happening in all of these so called tax havens which are under the jurisdiction of the UK.
Something is badly wrong with that.....

Others mentioned: Lord Ashcroft claiming to be non-domiciled in the UK http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-41879422
There was also a Cyprus connection mentioned on the Sunday night programme but referred to Cyp£ so must have been before January 2008 before Cyprus took the Euro currency.

There are now comments on the BBC website that the EU are seeking talks about looking to enforce a blacklist of tax havens and Jersey have said they will change their laws if necessary.

[Firefly]

Hi Jules

The whole thing stinks, the average working man and pensioners, have their tax taken at source. Surely it's not too hard to prevent 'assets' from being sold in this manner. It's always the same, money to money, that said HM is still just as much to blame as the others. I haven't heard any comments as yet from Buck House, but if HM denies knowledge of it, then as I said, she doesn't need it.
We shall see.

Jackie