Vicar bans hymn Onward Christian Soldiers from Remembrance Sunday service

[memory man]

The service could be boycotted by members of the Royal British Legion club in Oadby.

Members of the Royal British Legion club in Oadby are furious about a decision by their local vicar to block the singing of Onward Christian Soldiers during the Remembrance Sunday service.

Legion members told the Mercury that at the end of the Remembrance Sunday parade each year the participants march into St Peter’s Church in Wigston Road to the traditional hymn.

But they said that this year the vicar, Steve Bailey, had vetoed the hymn because people at the service would not necessarily be Christian.

Rev Bailey told the Mercury he did not want to comment on the story.

But Ian Thorpe, vice-chairman of the legion club, which is across the road from the church, said: “The new vicar is not happy with Onward Christian Soldiers being sung.

“It’s been done nearly every year in recent memory but he said they’re not doing it because not everyone at the service will be Christians – it’s not the ‘soldiers’ bit, it’s the ‘Christian’ bit.


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[Dominic]

He's got a point in a way, but:

1. Does anybody else care? Have Muslims, Atheists and Hindus actually complained?
2. Speaking of atheists, surely that leaves religion out totally, if you don't want to cause offense. Let's face it, an atheist is far more likely to get worked up about it than a muslim on hindu anyway.
3. Wouldn't it be easier to include the odd song about muslims, hindus etc, rather than exclude songs about Christians?

[Poppy]

I think it is very sad indeed that this hymn can not be sung. I am not racist at all but I do expect anyone who is not a Christian to respect our culture and we should be able to honour our dead in our own country.
Where I now live in Northumberland everywhere you go people are flying the Northumberland flag,they are proud of their heritage and so should we be.

[Dominic]

I think it is very sad indeed that this hymn can not be sung. I am not racist at all but I do expect anyone who is not a Christian to respect our culture and we should be able to honour our dead in our own country.
Where I now live in Northumberland everywhere you go people are flying the Northumberland flag,they are proud of their heritage and so should we be.

I find this kind of response just as perplexing as the vicar's actions.

No non Christian has complained. The non Christians aren't at fault here. It is the vicar. So why criticise the non Christians?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... rvice.html

There's even a quote from an old Hindu war veteran:

Ramanlal Anand, a Hindu member of the legion, said he was 'shocked' when he heard the song had been banned.
The 77-year-old added: 'I couldn't understand it. I don't see why anyone would have a problem with it at all.'

Though judging from a lot of comments on that article, most Mail readers didn't actually read beyond the headline.

Out of curiosity, is there a reason for them to be flying the Northumberland flag?

[Poppy]

No I am not blaming the non christians I am blaming the vicar for creating problems! Re the Northumberland flag I don't know why it is so prevalent other than we have so many castles here,certainly I don't remember a Staffordshire flag where I originate from.

[Firefly]

It's all getting out of hand, we aren't supposed to call Christmas, Christmas, it's the winter holidays, well no actually it's not, to Christians it's Christmas, it won't be long before we won't be able to sing carols in church. Nativity Plays are being banned by some schools, as are lessons on British History. It may the case that non Christians have not complained about these things, if so, why is this state of affairs continuing ?

Let's stop trying to be politically correct, we are a Christian Nation, if people cannot accept that, then don't come. We do not object to other religions having their services in their own places of worship here, we do not try to change their order of service, or ban certain parts of it, time to stop bending over backward to please a small minority, who shouldn't have a say anyway.

Jackie

[Dominic]

So what do we do? Round up all the vicars and send 'em all back 'ome?

[Firefly]

Now some sensitive posters would take offence at that Dominic but no, employ clergy who are prepared to do the job they are supposed to do i.e, preach the (Christian) Gospel, conduct Christian services, without fear or favour.

Jackie

[Dominic]

Can you not appreciate though, that to an observer, your prose would appear to be blaming the wrong people?

Let's stop trying to be politically correct, we are a Christian Nation, if people cannot accept that, then don't come. We do not object to other religions having their services in their own places of worship here, we do not try to change their order of service, or ban certain parts of it, time to stop bending over backward to please a small minority, who shouldn't have a say anyway.

They can accept it.
They don't try to change the Christian order of service.
They don't try to ban certain parts of it.
They don't want you to bend over backwards to please them.
They don't want to have a say (in how Christian services are ran).

So why say this: "if people cannot accept that, then don't come."?

[Firefly]

Because there are people, admittedly a minority, who have been accepted into our country, who do try to do all the things you mention, because they object to some Christian Practises, Nativity Plays being just one. That said, we should never alter/ban Christian customs or beliefs because some new over eager to please all Vicar, thinks it's a good idea, because it might offend others. It's a two pronged fork.

[Devil]

What proportion of the population are practising Christians? I don't mean those who go to church 2 or 3 times a year or who go to be seen but those who not only go to church very regularly and who practise the tenets as laid down by Jesus in their daily life. Maybe 1 or 2%?

[Dominic]

Because there are people, admittedly a minority, who have been accepted into our country, who do try to do all the things you mention, because they object to some Christian Practises, Nativity Plays being just one. That said, we should never alter/ban Christian customs or beliefs because some new over eager to please all Vicar, thinks it's a good idea, because it might offend others. It's a two pronged fork.

Where are these people? Show us links.

[Firefly]

Does one have to attend church to be a practising Christian ? Going into God's House regularly doesn't automatically qualify you in my experience.

[Dominic]

Does one have to attend church to be a practising Christian ? Going into God's House regularly doesn't automatically qualify you in my experience.

Yes, if you are Catholic.

Part of being a practising Catholic is going to church. I couldn't tell you about C of E etc.

Now, I think that process has always been misunderstood. An argument that atheists and agnostics use against organised religion is the rituals. "What kind of God demands constant praise?" That sort of thing.

Personally I believe that if there is a God, they will have floated the idea of services for the benefit of us, rather than them. At a church service, people come together and are civil to each other. God doesn't need that. We do.

I am no longer a practising Catholic, as I don't attend Mass. It doesn't mean I don't believe in God though.

[Firefly]

Dominic

Sorry I cannot agree with you, many, many Sunday mornings in the past I have been on hospital wards from 7.30 am. I took Communion together with those of our patients who wished to receive it, after that of course it was a matter of nursing the sick and injured. Now I don't think that I would be classed as any less of a Christian, than those who went to Church, whilst I was on duty.

I cannot remember The Bible all that well, but I think there is a quote saying something like 'if one or two are gathered together in my name, there am I'.

Jackie

[Dominic]

Taking blessed communion bread to hospitals is a common task. Most churches do it I imagine. I don't think anybody expects a patient to be wheeled out of hospital and to the local church. But the Saturday evening mass also "counts" as weekly mass attendance. So somebody who cared about such matters would probably tell you to go then.

There are many, many links out there saying why Catholic weekly mass attendance is mandatory. Here is one of them:

https://www.thoughtco.com/mass-every-sunday-542949

But in all honesty, I don't think Devil was referring to your particular set of circumstances when he was talking about non-practicing Christians. I think he was referring to the people who turn up on Christmas and Easter, but not the rest of the year.

Finally, please don't think I am trying to tell you what sort of Christian you are. There is an awful lot of Catholic dogma I don't agree with one iota. I am just saying what that dogma states with regards to mass attendance.

[Firefly]

Dominic

I'm C of E, so I wasn't bound by rules of the Roman Catholic Church. We never had a Saturday evening Communion service, that said, surely if one lives a Christian life, (which some regular church goers do not), personally I don't think it matters one iota whether or not you go twice a year or not at all, Christianity can't be measured by the times one attends church, which I believe was Devil's point.

Jackie

[Dominic]

But if people don't go to church, there will be no church. Within a generation it will be a memory. It appears to be happening already. The C of E has been in fairly rapid decline for years now. The only thing that has kept up RC attendances has been immigrant bums on seats, from the likes of Poland and the Philippines (at least in our old neck of the UK woods).

[darrow]

Perhaps I do tend to think outside the box, but even as a child this song represented Christians per se, not soldiers. Narrow minds and over thinking causes people to desert the church. Why do we have to be so worried about upsetting minorities! The same does not seem toapply to them. Each to their own.

[Firefly]

darrow

Very true, personally I think the clergy have a lot to answer for regarding falling numbers of church attendance. Preaching The Gospel is what they are paid to do, not to preach politics, as is so often the case now.

If they looked to their own stray lambs, numbers might increase, but that's not 'trendy'.

Jackie