Turning Tide: Too Hot For Moderates

[Dominic]

If we are collecting adjectives, I think I will throw "pompous" in your direction.

I am most disappointed with you. Whatever 'side' anyone is on, by resorting to sarcasm, hidden insults it weakens their argument.

How is calling somebody pompous any different to calling somebody arrogant? I am genuinely curious.

To be frank, there is no argument anyway. This is an inconsequential bun fight. I think all sides are getting a bit stir crazy waiting for something to actually happen in the negotiations.

[Jimgward]

I haven't noticed any ardent "remainer" actually attempting to rebuke any of the points made? Could it be because actually the article hits the nail on the head...and the truth hurts...holding your breath, turning blue whilst screaming " I don't like it" is hardly worthy of the remainer elite...is it...

Hudswell, I don’t think many ‘reasonable’ people wouldnt comment fully on an article that finishes in an almost racist manner, implying that all white people in London and it’s surrounds voted brexit, while ‘immigrants’, offspring of immigrants and non-whites voted remain. A ‘BLAME’ on those who voted remain and who are no ALL moaners and worse.

Being of immigrant stock - albeit generations ago, I actually see that Britain owed a debt to populaces of other countries, particularly, ‘Commonwealth” immigrants who in many cases were displaced or persecuted within their own countries, often by Britain and the armed forces you are so proud of. Britain has benefited enormously from this influx and the diversity it has created. However, this article could have been written by the BNP.

Shameful attitude.

[kingfisher]

What, Jim, is “an almost racist manner”? [c.f. My wife is “almost” pregnant]
If the article IS racist, refer the Spectator to the Race Relations Board or whatever.
If it is NOT racist, then doubtless you will find something else to whine on about.

[Dominic]

This was the paragraph in question:

The answer to this should be self-evident to any normal person: the inner London boroughs voted heavily for Remain not because of enlightened white British folk who welcome diversity, but because the overwhelming majority of people in these boroughs are immigrants, or the offspring of immigrants, themselves. Newham, Tower Hamlets, Lewisham, Southwark, Hounslow, Lambeth, Waltham Forest, Brent, Islington, Camden and many more all have a white British population which is below 50 per cent. In Newham the figure, staggeringly, is just 16.7 per cent, in Brent 18 per cent. The white British have moved out a long time ago, to the ring around London — which is why Sutton, Bexley, Barking and Dagenham, Hillingdon and Havering all voted out. And yet the BBC trotted out this canard once again as soon as the votes had been counted. Is it surprising that immigrants, or the offspring of immigrants, would vote heavily in favour of immigration, as they saw it? It doesn’t seem terribly surprising to me.

The only problem here, was that they weren't voting heavily in favour of immigration, were they? Had the immigrants in London been from the EU, then they might well have been. But most of them are from further afield than the EU.

You can check the 2011 census results here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_groups_in_London

So, if they weren't voting in favour of immigration, what were they voting for? Perhaps they just thought that the UK would be better off within the EU?

[Devil]

I'm neither 'remainer' nor 'quitter', but may I suggest that many, like me, are just fed up to the back teeth with the stupid speculation put out on forums and the media. Not one single person, not even May or Barnier, has any idea how it will end up, but many 'experts' here and elsewhere deem that they have all the answers, while sticking their heads above the parapet and pretending they know everything.

[WHL]

I haven't noticed any ardent "remainer" actually attempting to rebuke any of the points made? Could it be because actually the article hits the nail on the head...and the truth hurts...holding your breath, turning blue whilst screaming " I don't like it" is hardly worthy of the remainer elite...is it...

Hudswell, I don’t think many ‘reasonable’ people wouldnt comment fully on an article that finishes in an almost racist manner, implying that all white people in London and it’s surrounds voted brexit, while ‘immigrants’, offspring of immigrants and non-whites voted remain. A ‘BLAME’ on those who voted remain and who are no ALL moaners and worse.

Being of immigrant stock - albeit generations ago, I actually see that Britain owed a debt to populaces of other countries, particularly, ‘Commonwealth” immigrants who in many cases were displaced or persecuted within their own countries, often by Britain and the armed forces you are so proud of. Britain has benefited enormously from this influx and the diversity it has created. However, this article could have been written by the BNP.

Shameful attitude.

Good post

[Jimgward]

Grasping at straws there Jim, Playing the ever poplar and much overused "Racist" card....I come from Spanish Gypsy stock....way back.....it is really people with attitudes lke yours that cause real harm in society today....stifling free speech and debate, and finding fault everywhere...yes a shameful attitude.

I cause harm? Get a grip..... I expect media publications to provide accurate news, not speculation, not stirring and not pushing some kind of journalists personal agenda. I don’t find fault everywhere, I happen to find this article particularly poor in every way. Good old Hudswell, back to form...

[Jimgward]

What, Jim, is “an almost racist manner”? [c.f. My wife is “almost” pregnant]
If the article IS racist, refer the Spectator to the Race Relations Board or whatever.
If it is NOT racist, then doubtless you will find something else to whine on about.

I could have considered it racist, but I personally find it verging on.... some will find it racist. Whine? If I were the troll many on here are, I could retort, but I’ll leave it for now....

[Jimgward]

The liberal left? Is there a liberal right? Or is that against the grain of the right, to be liberal about anything?

I've seen Cameron and Osborne described as liberal left, by many right wingers...

I would describe myself as a democratic socialist, as would many, many people across the world.

[Rita Sherry]

I haven't noticed any ardent "remainer" actually attempting to rebuke any of the points made? Could it be because actually the article hits the nail on the head...and the truth hurts...holding your breath, turning blue whilst screaming " I don't like it" is hardly worthy of the remainer elite...is it...

Hudswell, I don’t think many ‘reasonable’ people wouldnt comment fully on an article that finishes in an almost racist manner, implying that all white people in London and it’s surrounds voted brexit, while ‘immigrants’, offspring of immigrants and non-whites voted remain. A ‘BLAME’ on those who voted remain and who are no ALL moaners and worse.

Being of immigrant stock - albeit generations ago, I actually see that Britain owed a debt to populaces of other countries, particularly, ‘Commonwealth” immigrants who in many cases were displaced or persecuted within their own countries, often by Britain and the armed forces you are so proud of. Britain has benefited enormously from this influx and the diversity it has created. However, this article could have been written by the BNP.

Shameful attitude.

Jimgward

As the daughter of a man, who like thousands of others, gave his life for his country consequent on WW11 and the widow of a regular serving serviceman (27 years plus reserve service) I take exception to your reference in paragraph two above of "persecution by the armed forces you are so proud of". I am proud of my father and my late husband both of whom served their regiments and country with dignity and honour often under unimaginable circumstances as did thousands of others and many servicemen/women today are doing the same so that you and I plus our families could/can sleep peacefully in our beds at night and enjoy our freedom. If anyone should be accused of racism it is you Sir and not for the first time.

Stop looking back in history and accept that the majority of British Citizens have learned from the past and are, by and large, the most tolerant and welcoming people one can find anywhere in the world. Please leave the British Forces out of this.

Dominic

If you dont believe that the Referendum result was all about immigration you do indeed surprise me because quite frankly that was what it was all about in various areas. The quote from the article of the outer London areas in particular and Northern Labour heartlands made no bones of how they felt regarding immigration and as someone who spent all of her adult life until I came to Cyprus living in West London (Ealing) I can assure you that topic was high on the agenda.

Like you and many others I am rather tired of this topic whilst no-one,I repeat no-one, is aware of where we are progressing to but undoubtedly we will learn sooner or later where we are all at. One of the reasons I have posted little on this subject is I dislike intensely the point scoring which goes on when no-one is actually aware of any significant facts as such. Every article, forum and Media articles or broadcasts are all opinions nothing more but each can, if digested properly, bring food for thought.

Fearful of how ones country is going to become in the future and expressing such a view is not racist it is concern for where we and our families are going.

Thank you

Rita

[Dominic]

Funny, I had to put up with leavers telling me for months that it wasn't all about immigration.

[Jimgym]

Rita, thank you for a very well written, thoughtful and reasoned post. One of the best I have read on here in a very long time.

[WHL]

O the Irony , British immigrants living in Cyprus having a pop at European immigrants living in the UK.

[exodus]

O the Irony , British immigrants living in Cyprus having a pop at European immigrants living in the UK.

Not really.
Immigrants living in Cyprus, of whatever Nationality, have to Register and prove they will not be a financial burden on the State; they must also have health care (private or reciprocal).
European immigrants living in UK get free healthcare, can claim benefits straightaway, do not have to register etc. Indeed the UK Govt have no idea exactly how many of them there are! Well they wouldn't have if there is no Registration procedure.
Amos.

[Jimgward]

Rita

My father spent 6 1/2 years in the army in WW2 - so I'm certainly aware and appreciative of what was done... The reference is because the poster I was referring to, was ex-forces, yet it is a fact, that in many situations, the British forces have caused strife and actually been part of the cause of immigration to this country. That does NOT mean ALL British forces, not ALL conflicts.

As to your ascertain of racism, how dare you. Show me evidence. Show me where this has happened on this thread or others, or take it back! That's a horrendous and condescending thing to say - good job this is in the Politics section.

I fully accept that Britain is now much more tolerant, but racism is an undercurrent for far too many. A recent C4 programme which wasn't done that week, called " My Week as a Muslim", at least showed a little bit of the outright racism in daily life.

As to being tired of this topic, don't enter the threads on it! Simple. Then you'll having nothing to moan about. Out me on ignore if you don't like my views and you won't have to suffer them, but perhaps an apology would not go amiss first!

I haven't noticed any ardent "remainer" actually attempting to rebuke any of the points made? Could it be because actually the article hits the nail on the head...and the truth hurts...holding your breath, turning blue whilst screaming " I don't like it" is hardly worthy of the remainer elite...is it...

Hudswell, I don’t think many ‘reasonable’ people wouldnt comment fully on an article that finishes in an almost racist manner, implying that all white people in London and it’s surrounds voted brexit, while ‘immigrants’, offspring of immigrants and non-whites voted remain. A ‘BLAME’ on those who voted remain and who are no ALL moaners and worse.

Being of immigrant stock - albeit generations ago, I actually see that Britain owed a debt to populaces of other countries, particularly, ‘Commonwealth” immigrants who in many cases were displaced or persecuted within their own countries, often by Britain and the armed forces you are so proud of. Britain has benefited enormously from this influx and the diversity it has created. However, this article could have been written by the BNP.

Shameful attitude.

Jimgward

As the daughter of a man, who like thousands of others, gave his life for his country consequent on WW11 and the widow of a regular serving serviceman (27 years plus reserve service) I take exception to your reference in paragraph two above of "persecution by the armed forces you are so proud of". I am proud of my father and my late husband both of whom served their regiments and country with dignity and honour often under unimaginable circumstances as did thousands of others and many servicemen/women today are doing the same so that you and I plus our families could/can sleep peacefully in our beds at night and enjoy our freedom. If anyone should be accused of racism it is you Sir and not for the first time.

Stop looking back in history and accept that the majority of British Citizens have learned from the past and are, by and large, the most tolerant and welcoming people one can find anywhere in the world. Please leave the British Forces out of this.

Dominic

If you dont believe that the Referendum result was all about immigration you do indeed surprise me because quite frankly that was what it was all about in various areas. The quote from the article of the outer London areas in particular and Northern Labour heartlands made no bones of how they felt regarding immigration and as someone who spent all of her adult life until I came to Cyprus living in West London (Ealing) I can assure you that topic was high on the agenda.

Like you and many others I am rather tired of this topic whilst no-one,I repeat no-one, is aware of where we are progressing to but undoubtedly we will learn sooner or later where we are all at. One of the reasons I have posted little on this subject is I dislike intensely the point scoring which goes on when no-one is actually aware of any significant facts as such. Every article, forum and Media articles or broadcasts are all opinions nothing more but each can, if digested properly, bring food for thought.

Fearful of how ones country is going to become in the future and expressing such a view is not racist it is concern for where we and our families are going.

Thank you

Rita

[WHL]

O the Irony , British immigrants living in Cyprus having a pop at European immigrants living in the UK.

Not really.
Immigrants living in Cyprus, of whatever Nationality, have to Register and prove they will not be a financial burden on the State; they must also have health care (private or reciprocal).
European immigrants living in UK get free healthcare, can claim benefits straightaway, do not have to register etc. Indeed the UK Govt have no idea exactly how many of them there are! Well they wouldn't have if there is no Registration procedure.
Amos.

And what UK laws have these European immigrants broken, please tell us.

[Dominic]

O the Irony , British immigrants living in Cyprus having a pop at European immigrants living in the UK.

Not really.
Immigrants living in Cyprus, of whatever Nationality, have to Register and prove they will not be a financial burden on the State; they must also have health care (private or reciprocal).
European immigrants living in UK get free healthcare, can claim benefits straightaway, do not have to register etc. Indeed the UK Govt have no idea exactly how many of them there are! Well they wouldn't have if there is no Registration procedure.
Amos.

That policy had nothing to do with the EU though. I never understood why Britain didn't enforce the rules the same way as everybody else did. It was as the powers that be couldn't be bother to do the paperwork. The UK is now suffering the consequences of their administrative laziness.

[Uncle D]

The U.K. Is far too generous in regard to its benefits culture, which of course EU citizens are entitled to take advantage of....and they do.

Yes, but many other EU countries pay out generous benefits also.
Britain thinks that its a victim of immigration, and other EU countries aren't targeted. For Instance our neighbour has a holiday home here and we see her once or twice per year. She is a primary school teacher from Munich. She has told us that out of 25 students in her class only 3 are German, the rest are a make up of other EU nationals plus some Russians. Most of the foreign students are male which suggests that the parents may not be sending their girls to school.
The only reason that I think that people head for the UK is that our language is taught pretty much all over the world.
Here is a link from the daily Telegraph showing what benefits are available in the EU.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... untry.html

[Firefly]

Rita

A brilliant post as usual.

Jackie

[Jimgward]

Rita

A brilliant post as usual.

Jackie

I wondered why you had taken so long... another to join and we can have a Macbeth moment....