Bombardier etc

[exodus]

What annoys me is that Boeing did not tender for the Delta Airlines order of x125 100 seater jetliners because they no longer make that size of aircraft.
So 4000 workers in Belfast stand to lose their jobs because US (Trump) has imposed a 219% tariff on all Bombardier planes sold into the USA.
Their planes are made in Canada, the wings for the 'C' Type jets Delta ordered are made in Belfast.
I hope Mrs May and her Govt will impose an equal tariff on all Boeing planes sold into the UK.
Most UK airlines use Boeing planes. including the National Airline British Airways.
Amos.

[WHL]

I heard that Bomardier are selling planes, at a lower cost then they cost to produce...anyone know any more regards this?

[exodus]

I heard that Bomardier are selling planes, at a lower cost then they cost to produce...anyone know any more regards this?

This is Boeing's argument, they say Bombardier receive Canadian and UK Govt subsidies making that possible.
It is of course a highly competitive market.
On the other hand the USA Govt effectively subsidises Boeing by giving them US Defence contracts for Aircraft - contracts which are only available to USA Aircraft manufacturers.
With those defence contracts Boeing can offer below production costs for some commercial sales.
Pot calling the Kettle black IMO.
Thus (as per my first post) I would hope for a reciprocal 219% tariff on all Boing planes sold into UK to be imposed.
Amos.

[Dominic]

Perhaps the UK Government should also Buy British? Then they wouldn't have to subsidise them.

[exodus]

Perhaps the UK Government should also Buy British? Then they wouldn't have to subsidise them.

I am sure that if UK still made Jetliners then the UK Govt and British airlines would buy them.
Amos.

[Dominic]

Perhaps the UK Government should also Buy British? Then they wouldn't have to subsidise them.

I am sure that if UK still made Jetliners then the UK Govt and British airlines would buy them.
Amos.

What do you base that assumption on? Where was the replacement for the The Atlantic Conveyor built?

More recently, this article suggests that though some aspects of defence have to be built in the UK, not all do.

https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/support ... -overseas/

[Royal]

So we could buy Airbus and support our fellow European (on the doorstep) manufacturers. We actually help build parts for Airbus.

Ooooooh, just remembered...maybe for not much longer

Weren't the Americans supposed to be some kind of saviour in the post-Brexit trading partner model?

You simply can't resist, Lloyd, can you?

Boeing and Bombardier are two commercial companies in dispute. One US owned - the other Canadian owned. Northern Ireland is caught in the middle of this dispute.

Nothing to do with Brexit whatsoever.

Nothing to do with trade deals whatsoever.

As far as the UK Is concerned - the issue is solely to do with the potential loss of jobs and livelihoods in Northern Ireland. As far as you're concerned, it's somehow all Brexit related - birds coming home to roost and all that.

Sad.

[Dominic]

Lloyd didn't blame this on Brexit at all. He merely pointed out to you two things:

1. We are part of a European project - Airbus
2. America shouldn't be relied on for generous trade deals.

It is the US system, not a commercial company, that is imposing the tariff. The same US system that the UK will have to negotiate trade deals with. That is the simple reality of the situation.

[exodus]

Lloyd didn't blame this on Brexit at all. He merely pointed out to you two things:

1. We are part of a European project - Airbus
2. America shouldn't be relied on for generous trade deals.

It is the US system, not a commercial company, that is imposing the tariff. The same US system that the UK will have to negotiate trade deals with. That is the simple reality of the situation.

Correct Dominic. So would you agree that the UK should impose similar tariff (220%) on all Boeing planes sold into the UK?
Tit for Tat trade war.
Amos.

[Dominic]

I don't have an opinion on what the UK should or shouldn't do. I don't know enough about the situation to form a valid one. I do think the British Government should support British Industry though, by using them in preference to overseas industry, even if it does cost a bit more. To me, that makes more sense than bunging them money to help them compete, as it actually shows you have faith in the finished product.

[Dominic]

I don't have an opinion on what the UK should or shouldn't do. I don't know enough about the situation to form a valid one. I do think the British Government should support British Industry though, by using them in preference to overseas industry, even if it does cost a bit more. To me, that makes more sense than bunging them money to help them compete, as it actually shows you have faith in the finished product.

[WHL]

Lloyd didn't blame this on Brexit at all. He merely pointed out to you two things:

1. We are part of a European project - Airbus
2. America shouldn't be relied on for generous trade deals.

It is the US system, not a commercial company, that is imposing the tariff. The same US system that the UK will have to negotiate trade deals with. That is the simple reality of the situation.

Correct Dominic. So would you agree that the UK should impose similar tariff (220%) on all Boeing planes sold into the UK?
Tit for Tat trade war.
Amos.

If theres a trade war with the Yanks...we will the losers, without question.

[Royal]

My response in red for ease of reference:

Lloyd didn't blame this on Brexit at all. He merely pointed out to you two things:

1. We are part of a European project - Airbus. Yes we are part of consortium which BAe was subsumed into - but that is a commercial venture. Not EU funded or controlled. By saying that we may not be part of that consortium for much longer, Lloyd has clearly referred to the doom and gloom (again) that in his eyes Brexit will bring the UK. Why on earth should Brexit mean that we are no longer part of Airbus?

2. America shouldn't be relied on for generous trade deals. I repeat, Dominic, this has nothing to do with a trade deal. When Trade Deals are signed and ratified, both parties are bound by them. Lloyd, clearly with regard to Brexit said "Weren't the Americans supposed to be some kind of saviour in the post-Brexit trading partner model." The answer would be 'No', and this spat does not affect any post Brexit trade deal with the US.

It is the US system, not a commercial company, that is imposing the tariff. The same US system that the UK will have to negotiate trade deals with. That is the simple reality of the situation. Not really. Read the small print. Boeing took Bombardier to court seeking a 200% tariff on Bombardier aircraft sold in the US. Ostensibly, this is to create an even playing field. However, Boeing clearly benefit from US Govt funding and are trying to squeeze Bombardier out of the Market. Bombardier didn't attend court (for whatever reason) so the court allowed Boeings request. This has not been approved yet by the US Federal Authorities - they decide on the issue in February 2018.

[Royal]

I don't have an opinion on what the UK should or shouldn't do. I don't know enough about the situation to form a valid one. I do think the British Government should support British Industry though, by using them in preference to overseas industry, even if it does cost a bit more. To me, that makes more sense than bunging them money to help them compete, as it actually shows you have faith in the finished product.

I whole-heartedly agree with the sentiment of the UK Government exclusively buying UK goods. However, you must be aware, surely, that as a member of the EU we are prohibited from doing just that. We have to tender most large contracts across 28 countries and not just favour our own. Another positive Brexit point!

When it comes to defence contracts, however, we surely want the best equipment available - whoever supplies it (as long as we can rely on spares being made available to us in times of war of course). If that points us to Boeing rather than Airbus, so be it.

[exodus]

Lloyd didn't blame this on Brexit at all. He merely pointed out to you two things:

1. We are part of a European project - Airbus
2. America shouldn't be relied on for generous trade deals.

It is the US system, not a commercial company, that is imposing the tariff. The same US system that the UK will have to negotiate trade deals with. That is the simple reality of the situation.

Correct Dominic. So would you agree that the UK should impose similar tariff (220%) on all Boeing planes sold into the UK?
Tit for Tat trade war.
Amos.

If theres a trade war with the Yanks...we will the losers, without question.

If the UK does not retaliate, the Govt will lose DUP support (as 4000 Ulster jobs will be under threat) and there will likely be a vote of No Confidence in the Govt, which would likely be carried, and Corbyn would be PM.
Which would you prefer? A trade war with the USA OR a Labour Govt. with Mr Corbyn as PM?
Amos.

[exodus]

I don't have an opinion on what the UK should or shouldn't do. I don't know enough about the situation to form a valid one. I do think the British Government should support British Industry though, by using them in preference to overseas industry, even if it does cost a bit more. To me, that makes more sense than bunging them money to help them compete, as it actually shows you have faith in the finished product.

If you have no opinion, would you like to see a Labour Govt in the UK? Or have you no opinion on that either?
What appears to make most sense logically is not always the best way to proceed in practice!
Amos.

[WHL]

Correct Dominic. So would you agree that the UK should impose similar tariff (220%) on all Boeing planes sold into the UK?
Tit for Tat trade war.
Amos.

If theres a trade war with the Yanks...we will the losers, without question.

If the UK does not retaliate, the Govt will lose DUP support (as 4000 Ulster jobs will be under threat) and there will likely be a vote of No Confidence in the Govt, which would likely be carried, and Corbyn would be PM.
Which would you prefer? A trade war with the USA OR a Labour Govt. with Mr Corbyn as PM?
Amos.

Its dosnt matter who I prefer, anyone with half a brain cell, would know, you aint going to win a trade war with the Yanks, especially with Trump in power.

[Royal]

Its dosnt matter who I prefer, anyone with half a brain cell, would know, you aint going to win a trade war with the Yanks, especially with Trump in power.

For goodness sake! Talk about escalation!

This issue is not about a US vs UK trade war.

If the issue leads to a trade war at all, it'll be between the US and Canada.

[WHL]

Its dosnt matter who I prefer, anyone with half a brain cell, would know, you aint going to win a trade war with the Yanks, especially with Trump in power.

For goodness sake! Talk about escalation!

This issue is not about a US vs UK trade war.

If the issue leads to a trade war at all, it'll be between the US and Canada.

My original point about trade wars was to Exodus, after he posted
Correct Dominic. So would you agree that the UK should impose similar tariff (220%) on all Boeing planes sold into the UK?
Tit for Tat trade war.
Amos.
So do us a favour and dont take what I post out of context ..to try and make yourself look clever

[Royal]

So do us a favour and dont take what I post out of context ..to try and make yourself look clever

WHL

Take a look in the mirror sometime.

You always seem to personalise things with anyone you disagree with, which indicates a total lack of coherent argument on your part.

Just stick to the subject of the thread and leave ad hominem comments behind.