BREXIT negotiations re UK citizens in the EU and EU citizens in the UK

[Poppy]

Looks as though this is already a stumbling block in negotiations. Apparently the EU want complete free movement of EU nationals living in the UK and that they should have the freedom to return to their own country for however many years and then after those years to be free to return to the UK! Apparently if the UK will not allow this then any ExPats currently living in an EU country will not be allowed to move to live in another EU country so best make the best of Cyprus and don't think about moving!!

[Firefly]

Poppy

So much for controlling our own borders then. I might have known the EU would put a big spanner in the works.

Jackie

[trevnhil]

Looks as though this is already a stumbling block in negotiations. Apparently the EU want complete free movement of EU nationals living in the UK and that they should have the freedom to return to their own country for however many years and then after those years to be free to return to the UK! Apparently if the UK will not allow this then any ExPats currently living in an EU country will not be allowed to move to live in another EU country so best make the best of Cyprus and don't think about moving!!

From that it seems that ex pats in the EU WILL be able to move back to the UK... When it comes out of the EU..

[Poppy]

Oh yes I should think so Trev! In fact surely the UK could not stop you? However I really think the EU are pushing their luck to suggest that a french person for example currently living in the UK can then return to France for several years and then have the absolute right to return to live in the UK whenever they wish.Re the ExPats currently living in an EU country then I can understand that they should not have the automatic right to move to another EU country. Apparently the EH1C is also a stumbling block

[Jimgward]

I’m surprised some would think some of these negative outcomes would occur...

If Britain dont offer agreements for free movement, why should the EU?

I think some on Cyprus, who voted Brexit, might well find their futures limited....

[geoffreys]

Early days yet. It'll be alright on the night.
They need us more than we need them.
Geoff.

[Firefly]

How true Geoff, that's why they are putting the pressure on. They seem to be misguided into thinking that Brexit won't happen if they make it as difficult as possible for us.

Jackie

[Devil]

Poppy

So much for controlling our own borders then. I might have known the EU would put a big spanner in the works.

Jackie

Pity that the big spanner is British with the 5-year idea.

[Firefly]

I was talking control of our borders, not how long it will take.

[josef k]

Early days yet. It'll be alright on the night.
They need us more than we need them.
Geoff.

I don't know about that Geoff. It's a nice thought but I suspect they can get along quite nicely without us.

According to polls, people in the UK think the EU needs it more than it needs the EU.
Norway agrees with the UK, or at least thinks they are on a par.
All the others think the UK needs the EU more than they need the UK.

What is missing from the debate are any facts to support either view.

[Firefly]

Josef k

We managed ok before we joined, so I can see no reason why we shouldn't manage ok when we leave. One fact to support one side of the debate.

Jackie

[Pete G]

Second largest net contributor [of two] to EU overall funding
Largest EU contributor [by Territory] to EU cold water fisheries for the CFP
Largest net trading deficit with the EU [24bn] of any member state
Overwhelmingly largest provider of EU global finance capability [98% of a global market share of 47%]
Single largest contributor [both per capita and absolutely] to EU defence initiatives
Largest net immigration rate per captia for EU nationals
Only EU member of Five-Eyes
Only EU member to fully meet NATO commitments
Second smallest per capita recipient of CAP subsidies
Independent member of G7
Largest mutual interest group in history [the Commowealth] already established to facilitate new trading agreements [and keen to do so, it appears]
Pre-established African and American trading network willing and eager to begin trade once the EU customs union restrictions are lifted

Doesn't look like a completely disastrous hand to me

[geoffreys]

Second largest net contributor [of two] to EU overall funding
Largest EU contributor [by Territory] to EU cold water fisheries for the CFP
Largest net trading deficit with the EU [24bn] of any member state
Overwhelmingly largest provider of EU global finance capability [98% of a global market share of 47%]
Single largest contributor [both per capita and absolutely] to EU defence initiatives
Largest net immigration rate per captia for EU nationals
Only EU member of Five-Eyes
Only EU member to fully meet NATO commitments
Second smallest per capita recipient of CAP subsidies
Independent member of G7
Largest mutual interest group in history [the Commowealth] already established to facilitate new trading agreements [and keen to do so, it appears]
Pre-established African and American trading network willing and eager to begin trade once the EU customs union restrictions are lifted

Doesn't look like a completely disastrous hand to me

Nice one Pete G - you'll be giving HIC a panic attack.
I'm putting my flak jacket on....
Geoff.

[Poppy]

Thank you Pete G, it is nice to read a post that is based on fact rather than the medias' biased ramblings.

[Firefly]

Pete G

A very informative post, thank you.

Jackie

[geoffreys]

Thank you Pete G, it is nice to read a post that is based on fact rather than the medias' biased ramblings.

....and on HIC's biased ramblings??
Geoff.

[Poppy]

Now I am one of those on here who knows very little about Politics although it greatly interests me and I am learning! I also do not mind showing my ignorance if it helps me to understand so would some one please tell me why the UKs large trading deficit is good news? Does it mean that we here in the UK are importing much more than we are exporting and although maybe not good for the UK in Trade terms is good when negotiating BREXIT?
Just a very simplistic answer will do for this very simple person to understand!!
Thanks!

[ApusApus]

Now I am one of those on here who knows very little about Politics although it greatly interests me and I am learning! I also do not mind showing my ignorance if it helps me to understand so would some one please tell me why the UKs large trading deficit is good news? Does it mean that we here in the UK are importing much more than we are exporting and although maybe not good for the UK in Trade terms is good when negotiating BREXIT?
Just a very simplistic answer will do for this very simple person to understand!!
Thanks!

In the context of the "Europe doesn't need us" arguments, it means that Europe does need us as we account for 24bn worth of their trade!


Shane

[Poppy]

Thank you Shane! It appears that I am not quite as thick as I look!!

[Royal]

Europe does need us as we account for 24bn worth of their trade!

Shane

Actually, you can multiply that figure by ten. We import from the EU £290,000,000,000 worth of their goods and sell them £230,000,000,000 of our goods and services. Our trade deficit with the EU is therefore currently running at £60 Billion. This is over and above our NET contribution to the EU coffers of £10 Billion.

I agree that they need us more than we need them.

They do NOT hold all the aces as HIC will keep on spouting to us.