Britain faces up to Brexit (source: Economist)

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Britain faces up to Brexit (source: Economist)

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Britain faces up to Brexit

As long as the government stays in denial about Brexit’s drawbacks, the country is on course for disaster

CRISIS? What crisis? So many have been triggered in Britain by the vote a year ago to leave the European Union that it is hard to keep track. Just last month Theresa May was reduced from unassailable iron lady to just-about-managing minority prime minister. Her cabinet is engaged in open warfare as rivals position themselves to replace her. The Labour Party, which has been taken over by a hard-left admirer of Hugo Chávez, is ahead in the polls. Meanwhile a neurotic pro-Brexit press shrieks that anyone who voices doubts about the country’s direction is an unpatriotic traitor. Britain is having a very public nervous breakdown.

The chaos at the heart of government hardly bodes well for the exit negotiations with the EU, which turned to detailed matters this week and need to conclude in autumn 2018. But the day-to-day disorder masks a bigger problem. Despite the frantic political activity in Westminster—the briefing, back-stabbing and plotting—the country has made remarkably little progress since the referendum in deciding what form Brexit should take. All versions, however “hard” or “soft”, have drawbacks (see article). Yet Britain’s leaders have scarcely acknowledged that exit will involve compromises, let alone how damaging they are likely to be. The longer they fail to face up to Brexit’s painful trade-offs, the more brutal will be the eventual reckoning with reality.

Winging it

In the 13 months since the referendum, the awesome complexity of ending a 44-year political and economic union has become clear. Britain’s position on everything from mackerel stocks to nuclear waste is being worked out by a civil service whose headcount has fallen by nearly a quarter in the past decade and which has not negotiated a trade deal of its own in a generation. Responsibility for Brexit is shared—or, rather, fought over and sometimes dropped—by several different departments. Initially Britain’s decision not to publish a detailed negotiating position, as the EU had, was put down to its desire to avoid giving away its hand. It now seems that Britain triggered exit talks before working out where it stood. The head of its public-spending watchdog said recently that when he asked ministers for their plan he was given only “vague” assurances; he fears the whole thing could fall apart “at the first tap”.

As the scale of the task has become apparent, so has the difficulty of Britain’s position. Before the referendum Michael Gove, a leading Brexiteer in the cabinet, predicted that, “The day after we vote to leave, we hold all the cards.” It is not turning out like that. So far, where there has been disagreement Britain has given way. The talks will be sequenced along the lines suggested by the EU. Britain has conceded that it will pay an exit bill, contrary to its foreign secretary’s suggestion only a week ago that Eurocrats could “go whistle” for their money.

The hobbled Mrs May has appealed to other parties to come forward with ideas on how to make Brexit work. Labour, which can hardly believe that it is within sight of installing a radical socialist prime minister in 10 Downing Street, is unsurprisingly more interested in provoking an election. But cross-party gangs of Remainer MPs are planning to add amendments to legislation, forcing the government to try to maintain membership of Euratom, for instance, which governs the transit of radioactive material in Europe. Even within the government, the prime minister’s lack of grip means that cabinet ministers have started openly disagreeing about what shape Brexit should take. Philip Hammond, the chancellor, has been sniped at because he supports a long transition period to make Brexit go smoothly—a sensible idea which is viewed with suspicion by some Brexiteers, who fear the transition stage could become permanent.

The reopening of the debate is welcome, since the hard exit proposed in Mrs May’s rejected manifesto would have been needlessly damaging. But there is a lack of realism on all sides about what Britain’s limited options involve. There are many ways to leave the EU, and none is free of problems. The more Britain aims to preserve its economic relationship with the continent, the more it will have to follow rules set by foreign politicians and enforced by foreign judges (including on the sensitive issue of freedom of movement). The more control it demands over its borders and laws, the harder it will find it to do business with its biggest market. It is not unpatriotic to be frank about these trade-offs. Indeed, it is more unpatriotic to kid voters into thinking that Brexit has no drawbacks at all.

The government has not published any estimates of the impact of the various types of Brexit since the referendum, but academic studies suggest that even the “softest” option—Norwegian-style membership of the European Economic Area—would cut trade by at least 20% over ten years, whereas the “hardest” exit, reverting to trade on the World Trade Organisation’s terms, would reduce trade by 40% and cut annual income per person by 2.6%. As the economy weakens, these concerns will weigh more heavily. Britain’s economy is growing more slowly than that of any other member of the EU. The election showed that its voters are sick of austerity. Our own polling finds that, when forced to choose, a majority now favours a soft Brexit, inside the single market (see article).

Back in play

A febrile mood in the country, and the power vacuum in Downing Street, mean that all options are back on the table. This is panicking people on both sides of the debate. Some hardline Brexiteers are agitating again for Britain to walk away from the negotiations with no deal, before voters have a change of heart. Some Remainers are stepping up calls for a second referendum, to give the country a route out of the deepening mess. As the negotiations blunder on and the deadline draws nearer, such talk will become only more fevered.

So it is all the more crucial that all sides face up to the real and painful trade-offs that Brexit entails. The longer Britain keeps its head in the sand, the more likely it is to end up with no deal, and no preparations for the consequences. That would bring a crisis of a new order of magnitude.
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Re: Britain faces up to Brexit (source: Economist)

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Can anyone spot Theresa on the pic? Lol
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Re: Britain faces up to Brexit (source: Economist)

Post by Lofos-5 »

Continues the Theresa theme from the title page a few weeks ago ...

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Re: Britain faces up to Brexit (source: Economist)

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I wonder how far down the Ostriches are going to bury themselves before finally realising and shouts "oh shit, what have we done?"
"Have Camera, Will Travel"
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Re: Britain faces up to Brexit (source: Economist)

Post by geoffreys »

PhotoLady wrote: Thu Jul 20, 2017 9:37 pm I wonder how far down the Ostriches are going to bury themselves before finally realising and shouts "oh shit, what have we done?"
"source Economist". That says it all.
Absolute tripe not based on any real evidence.
The Brexit negotiations have only just started - be patient. Patience is a virtue.
Yee of little faith.....
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Re: Britain faces up to Brexit (source: Economist)

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geoffreys wrote: Fri Jul 21, 2017 6:53 am The Brexit negotiations have only just started - be patient.
They should have started a year ago, but for the lack of diligence of a totally hopeless government, led by the person most buried in the sand. As it is, the same totally hopeless government has done nothing positive yet and gives no reason for hope before 2019.
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Re: Britain faces up to Brexit (source: Economist)

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Devil-How COULD the Brexit negotiations have started a year ago?
Article 50 was triggered on March 29th, until then no negotiations could take place. (Delayed, I think, by Gina Miller and her chums doing their level best to frustrate the will of the majority by bringing high court cases etc.).
Then May called the election to increase her majority- because of the dissent being voiced by political factions who would not accept the vote to leave, quite simply. I really don’t see how she could have started any sooner.
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Re: Britain faces up to Brexit (source: Economist)

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Devil wrote: Fri Jul 21, 2017 10:14 am
They should have started a year ago, but for the lack of diligence of a totally hopeless government, led by the person most buried in the sand. As it is, the same totally hopeless government has done nothing positive yet and gives no reason for hope before 2019.
So you would have advocated starting the talks immediately after the Referendum, when we had only just appointed a Brexit Secretary and before we had even created a new Whitehall Department staffed with civil servants, legal experts, trade experts, customs experts et al without anyone having read into their brief and totally unprepared for discussions?

The pace is fine. I agree with Geoff. Patience is the key. Despite what some may believe, we WILL get a good deal - and I fully support the idea that NO DEAL is better than a BAD DEAL. EU beware!

I just wish that we didn't have the constant remoaning and undermining of our elected leaders from within the country.
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Re: Britain faces up to Brexit (source: Economist)

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The big error was waiting so many months before Art 50. If it had been announced immediately after the referendum, both sides would have been unprepared and on an equal footing. As it is, only the UK has no footing while the EU is fully prepared.

An even bigger error was the UK not to have been prepared before the referendum.
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Re: Britain faces up to Brexit (source: Economist)

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Devil wrote: Fri Jul 21, 2017 2:12 pm The big error was waiting so many months before Art 50. If it had been announced immediately after the referendum, both sides would have been unprepared and on an equal footing. As it is, only the UK has no footing while the EU is fully prepared.

An even bigger error was the UK not to have been prepared before the referendum.
Can you post any links to corroborate that statement, because all I can see so far is jerry mandering, filly busting, and bullying attempts by the EU.
Oh yes, and of course the general anti Brexit glee from most of the media and ardent lovers of all things EU on this Forum.
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Re: Britain faces up to Brexit (source: Economist)

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I have to admit that it did appear that David Camerons government did not seem to do any preparation pre BREXIT as they were completely taken by surprise by the result of the referendum. He then spat his dummy out leaving the next leader to pick up the pieces which of course delayed things but I now believe that this Government have worked exceedingly hard,apparently have some excellent brains on the negotiating team and we are well capable of obtaining a good deal for the benefit of the UK and it is about time that the Media,all political parties and all residents supported them and showed the EU that we do deserve the great in Great Britain!!
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Re: Britain faces up to Brexit (source: Economist)

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Poppy wrote: Fri Jul 21, 2017 3:52 pm I have to admit that it did appear that David Camerons government did not seem to do any preparation pre BREXIT as they were completely taken by surprise by the result of the referendum. He then spat his dummy out leaving the next leader to pick up the pieces which of course delayed things but I now believe that this Government have worked exceedingly hard,apparently have some excellent brains on the negotiating team and we are well capable of obtaining a good deal for the benefit of the UK and it is about time that the Media,all political parties and all residents supported them and showed the EU that we do deserve the great in Great Britain!!
I honestly don’t know where you get the confidence from, that they are either working hard, have excellent brains and are capable? There’s zero evidence of that. I do hope it’s true, but I’m afraid I have zero confidence in May, Gove or Fox.... David a bit more.... but nothing has happened so far to lead anyone, to a conclusion that we are on form.
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Re: Britain faces up to Brexit (source: Economist)

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Devil wrote: Fri Jul 21, 2017 2:12 pm The big error was waiting so many months before Art 50. If it had been announced immediately after the referendum, both sides would have been unprepared and on an equal footing. As it is, only the UK has no footing while the EU is fully prepared.

An even bigger error was the UK not to have been prepared before the referendum.
So just to paraphrase slightly, and expand

Remain supporters in the Government were so confident of their position they failed to do any contingency planning for a 'Leave' vote, and were therefore ill prepared

Remain supporters continued to push the argument [and indeed still do] that the EU is capable of reform from within, especially regarding repatriation of powers, despite Cameron's public humiliation when he attempted to get even agreement in principle on a very mild set of reforms, and despite saying that the Government would support leave if those demands weren't met, and all subsequent evidence being to the exact contrary.

That despite Leaver injunctions to issue immediate notification of Article 50, Remain supporters demanded that the referendum result should be fully debated in Parliament, causing delays with no discernible advantage to the UK position

After this, Remainer factions outside the Government insisted that even after a debate, Article 50 could still not be activated without an actual vote, and took that insistence to court, causing further delays with no positive effect or advantage for the UK, and putting a considerable burden on an already overstretched public purse

After having taken the vote Remainers then objected that TM had no real mandate, as an unelected leader. TM then seeks the mandate and returns to power with a decreased majority because [amongst other factors admittedly] there were a cadre of Remainers who would rather see a Trotskyite terrorist supporter as PM, a Marxist Chancellor, and a functionally illiterate Home Secretary and the promise of a 'soft Brexit' than see an apparently committed to Brexit TM continue to take the reigns.

And all this is not to mention all of the fifth column support for the EU negotiating position since negotiations started.

So I really can't imagine how all of these 'low information' leave merchants could possibly have got the notion that the Remainers are now so obsessed with losing such a sure thing that they are prepared to use any means necessary to ensure that the UK negotiating position is as dismal as they can make it, and are happy to the point of ecstasy at the prospect of a severely disadvantaged UK leaving the negotiations, as that would prove, if they needed proof beyond their own unshakeable faith, that they were right all along

I mean, where could they possibly have gotten that idea from?
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Re: Britain faces up to Brexit (source: Economist)

Post by Poppy »

Jimgward I read an article about some of the actual negotiating team and it does appear that there are some excellent people there but sorry to say I can't find the article now. Just got up so give me time and I will try to find it.
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Re: Britain faces up to Brexit (source: Economist)

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Yet another good reason for getting away from the ticking time bomb of the EU/ euro.
The MSM seem so busy finding any bit of potentially bad news to try and hobble Brexit they appear by default to have given Europe a clean bill of health regarding migration and debt. As regards the latter, this is patently not so....
https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/sheer ... 39845.html
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Re: Britain faces up to Brexit (source: Economist)

Post by Firefly »

Why do people keep knocking Mrs May ? She didn't turn tail and run when Brexit was voted for. The coward Cameron did, if he'd had the b..... to man up and do the job, maybe then some of the male posters might have been happier !

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Re: Britain faces up to Brexit (source: Economist)

Post by Pete G »

Happy in Cyprus wrote: Tue Jul 25, 2017 1:18 am
I guess then that you haven't yet seen the IMF downgrades for the UK and US economies and upgrade for the EU which were released yesterday?

It's surprising just how many of the European economies are now doing rather nicely - even Spain ;) And heaven knows, even Greece is thinking of issuing it's first bond after how many years. And we all know how Cyprus's economy is doing ;)
IMF Reforecasts for 2017

Germany 1.8% = European Powerhouse
UK 1.7% = Sick man of Europe
France 1.5% = appears to be doing OK
Italy 1.3% = .....errrr........ we'll get back to you on that one
Eurozone 1.9% = see, if we lump in the small economies we get a much better picture of Europe, must be all those subsidies
Spain 3.1% = If you start in the toilet, everywhere looks like up to a banker, even record and still increasing levels of youth unemployment

For Context

Sub Saharan Africa 2.7% = and we all know what a paradise that is
Low income developing countries 4.6% = why are all these economic migrants moving to lower growth rates, we just don't understand?

And to give you confidence in IMF forecasts, a selection of their previous 'Greatest Hits'

Original 2013 forecast if UK continues its 'disastrous' austerity budget 0.7% = actual performance 1.7% outperforming all EU countries that had taken IMF 'advice' on austerity

Original pre-referendum forecast for a 2017 UK having voted leave MINUS 1.5% = three times larger than the error of judgement we made in 2013, why are you people even listening to us any more?
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Re: Britain faces up to Brexit (source: Economist)

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Oh God, I swear I can hear the tee he chuckles from Thremithousa
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Re: Britain faces up to Brexit (source: Economist)

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Oh God, I swear I can hear the tee he chuckles from Thremithousa
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Re: Britain faces up to Brexit (source: Economist)

Post by outasite »

Does anyone in your fantasy world HiC really think the UK will not be able to purchase radioactive isotopes for cancer treatment?
The Independent is another word for socialist scare mongering rag not fit to wipe my nether regions. Give your anti British bloody vitriol a rest!!!!
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