So where is the UK's Brexit masterplan?

[Galini]

There goes the exchange rate again then !

[geoffreys]

Don't always believe what you read in newspapers. All they care about is selling newspapers, usually to the most gullible (NOT you).
Geoff.

[WHL]

The UK is leaving, the people voted for out, some people should google Democracy...or in simple terms, suck it up, you lost.

[Lofos-5]

.... in simple terms, suck it up, you lost.

I think in this instance there are sadly only losers ...

[Jimgward]

The UK is leaving, the people voted for out, some people should google Democracy...or in simple terms, suck it up, you lost.

Your old 75 record is stuck. Give it a bump and some more words might come out

[WHL]

The UK is leaving, the people voted for out, some people should google Democracy...or in simple terms, suck it up, you lost.

Your old 75 record is stuck. Give it a bump and some more words might come out

Dont need a thousand words like others, straight and to the point.

[Jimgward]

The UK is leaving, the people voted for out, some people should google Democracy...or in simple terms, suck it up, you lost.

Your old 75 record is stuck. Give it a bump and some more words might come out

Dont need a thousand words like others, straight and to the point.

OK then, what if democratically, UK citizens (not you ex-pat immigrants living in other countries) CHOOSE to lobby their elected politicians, to force another referendum. IF that vote is different to the previous, then democracy says it stands.

I accept the present Brexit vote, but also respect the notion that it appears the majority is swinging quickly towards Remain. If that is so, why would a democratic country not go that way? People can and do change their minds.

At present, nothing is in place to change the Brexit vote, however the general election was in part an anti-brexit vote (or anti May-type Brexit for sure)

[Firefly]

Jim

In other words, we keep on voting until the remoaners win ? (If they do eventually). I do not know one person who voted for Brexit who have changed their minds.

Jackie

[WHL]

Remoaners = lets keep having votes until we win .Kim Jong-un would be proud of your interpretation of Democracy. .... you lost, end off...

[Poppy]

Not so significant actually Lloyd. The pound was trading against the euro this time last year at 1.19 and has now "soared" from it's "plunge"( your words not mine) to 1.14 so based on my pension that would equate to about 22 euros per month so nothing to get your knickers in a twist about!!

[geoffreys]

Not so significant actually Lloyd. The pound was trading against the euro this time last year at 1.19 and has now "soared" from it's "plunge"( your words not mine) to 1.14 so based on my pension that would equate to about 22 euros per month so nothing to get your knickers in a twist about!!

Since when did Lloyd start wearing knickers, 23rd June, 2016, perhaps?
Geoff.

[Varky]

I think the constant bickering between pro and anti Brexit on this thread, at this particular moment, is non-productive and whistling in the wind.

As the title of this thread asks, where is the UK Brexit masterplan? No-one on the government side, who is supposed to be in charge of the Brexit negotiations has announced to the electorate a programme of negotiations/discussions both within government and with the EU, so that we can all see and monitor progress. By this I don't mean to say that details of the UK negotiating base should be provided, just a report on progress. In the main, the government is letting down the nation, and the other parties attitudes are not helping. Both sides are point scoring without consideration for a satisfactory end result. It's a c*ck-up.

As someone once said a horse designed by a committee is a camel, well be prepared to receive a March Hare.

[geoffreys]

I wouldn't go as far as calling it bickering Varky, debate and discussion - expressing alternative viewpoints. Which is what forums like this one are designed to encourage.
Geoff.
P.S. Just seen Mr Blair on TV throwing in HIS pennyworth. He says he is so passionate about the Brexit issue he was tempted to re-enter UK Politics. Wow - who would be worst as PM, Blair or Corbyn??

[Jimgym]

There is no plan, master or otherwise, Davis blunders from meeting to meeting, this will not end well.

How do you know? Are you privy to Government meetings? Is there something you aren't telling us? Please enlighten us all as to where you have gathered this very important information.

[geoffreys]

The UK delegation had submitted their proposals to the EU side in advance of the meeting!
Media hype suggesting anything else!
Geoff.

[Jimgym]

deleted, double post

[Jimgym]

There is no plan, master or otherwise, Davis blunders from meeting to meeting, this will not end well.

The UK's negotiation team?

EU guys on the left (pic below) look businesslike and are each in possession of discussion documents in folders; UK delegates on the right have nothing in front of them; not even blank paper or a ball-point pen. Body language says it all.

Who would you put your money on winning the argument?

What's the expression: "Fail to prepare, prepare to fail"

Wow, you judge people based on a newspaper photo? Getting desperate now Lloyd if you are sinking to these lows.

[Pete G]

The UK's negotiation team?

EU guys on the left (pic below) look businesslike and are each in possession of discussion documents in folders; UK delegates on the right have nothing in front of them; not even blank paper or a ball-point pen. Body language says it all.

Who would you put your money on winning the argument?

What's the expression: "Fail to prepare, prepare to fail"

The picture in the FT article was taken at a scheduled 30 minute pre-meeting, specifically for the purpose of a press briefing. No actual negotiations were to take place. The negotiating teams [which are extensive] were in a different room waiting on the arrivals of the principals for the negotiations to start. In sure both sides had more documentation than you could shake a stick at.

I do agree though, the picture demonstrates the smartness of the EU position.

It would, I suggest, be clear to all except those who wish to be deluded, that the EU have been negotiating in bad faith from the outset, and that a mutually beneficial deal with a UK outside of their control has always been the very worst outcome from their point of view. Their position has been clear from the outset, the UK must be punished for failing to fall in line with the great European experiment.

Even a slightly objective view of their negotiating tactics so far highlights this. A string of obviously unacceptable alternatives, continuation of CJEU supremacy, massive exit bills, invitations to Corbyn to join the negotiating team, etc., clearly designed not as actual serious negotiating tactics, but just as fodder to the UK based fifth column [i.e. those people who are so sure of their correctness that they simply brand anyone who disagrees with them as 'low information' and therefore too stupid to vote], who are quite happy to delay, circumvent and generally undermine the Brexit process, by any means necessary, regardless of what the cost to the UK might be. I mean why would anyone involved in adversarial negotiations bother to try and undermine their opponents position, when there is a massive dissenting voice actually in their opponents camp, who merely need to be fed.

And it appears, to be fair, to be working like a charm.

I offer two titbits, for your consideration, in support.

One of the high profile supporters of this insurrection, the august Baron Heseltine of Thenford, is mainly famous not only for being so convinced of his opinions on closer integration with Europe that he was happy to publically stab his own party leader and Prime Minister and risk the Government falling to ensure they were carried out, but then happily subsequently destroyed the UK helicopter industry as a price worth paying for that integration.

If transparency in mutually beneficial negotiations is key to their success [as the EU are claiming] then how come they adopted the exact opposite point of view with other [actually this time] mutually beneficial deals such as the now defunct TTIP and the current agreement with Japan [which doesn't actually agree anything] where negotiations were behind closed doors, with no press or public access, and the negotiating terms so secret that MEPs were only allowed to see them in a locked room, with no note-taking facilities, and upon signing a paper saying that discussing the contents, even with other MEPs would lead to exclusion from the chamber and possible prosecution. I think, in the very best traditions of the Private Eye, we should be told. It certainly wouldn't comply with any definition of transparency I was previously aware of

[Poppy]

This picture clearly indicates how biased the press are at trying to portray that the EU negotiating team are far superior to the UK team
Dear me,anyone who is taken in by this picture really is gullible. It is about time the Press got behind BREXIT and started to support the UK.

[geoffreys]

This picture clearly indicates how biased the press are at trying to portray that the EU negotiating team are far superior to the UK team
Dear me,anyone who is taken in by this picture really is gullible. It is about time the Press got behind BREXIT and started to support the UK.

Well said Poppy! As should the whole UK population, after all it is their collective future/s.
And all the Cabinet also - this is no time for bickering, leaks, leadership contests, etc. As Mrs May told all the Conservative MPs yesterday
it has to stop, or it will let Corbyn into No. 10 Downing Street. Now THAT really would be a disaster for the UK.
Geoff.