Divine retribution?

[Jimgward]

Dominic I don't quite know what you mean by an intensively farmed cow! I come from a farming background and most cows I believe are treated in the same way. In England they are kept in sheds through the winter due to the climate which is not ideal but there is no other way. Believe me the farmers do not want to keep them tied up in sheds - more expensive to feed and more muck to clean. From Spring to Autumn the cows are kept loose in fields with the rest of their herd and only come indoors twice a day for mllking - not too bad an existance. Farming can be cruel and I used to hate it when newly born calves were taken from their mothers but that is the way. Now if you talk about intensively farmed birds then that is a different matter altogether and I deplore it.

There have been various documentaries on Factory cattle. Huge sheds where not only do the beasts not see a field, but they are pinned by their necks in an eating mode, to allow cheaper meat. Tesco and the like are pushing for the cheapest of the cheap.

[Cogs123]

WHL,
Your assumption is incorrect, I still live & work, ( full-time ), in the ' real ' world, & I can assure you that I have never held the view that the fox is a ' cuddly, Basil Brush ' character, I see it for what it is...a magnificent & beautiful wild predator, that has been much maligned by the Fox Hunting Brigade in order to suit their own agenda.
You also stated that none of us had come up with a better alternative, if you had given my previous posts better due diligence, then you would have noticed that I had already implied that Shooting them would be a far better & more humane way of dealing with problem predators.

[WHL]

Shooting them...yep that works for me. any way to keep Vermin levels down is good.

[Firefly]

Bassman

I didn't know that pigs were slaughtered by Moslems in their abattoirs, I wouldn't have thought that they would handle pigs even.

Jackie

[Cogs123]

Dominic,
It was never my intention to denigrate or insult farmers/poultry keepers, perhaps I should have elaborated on the issue, the fox hunters have always demonized the fox as the major instigator in animal attacks.
Living & working in the beautiful county of North Yorks, with a large rural & farming community, we often get reports of dog attacks on livestock.
Many farmers house their ewes during lambing, some that don't, have used Alpacas & certain breeds of dogs as a successful deterrent against foxes.
Poultry owners use electrified mesh in order to keep their birds safe & there are many farmers that value the fox in keeping rabbit numbers down....good husbandry can & does make a huge difference.

BBC Farming Today stated ' In the last five years between Jan 2010 / Dec. 2015, at least one dog a week has been shot for worrying livestock.

Earlier this year, Farmer Gordon Wyeth, lost 116 sheep to a dog attack in what has been described as the ' worst ever ' sheep worrying incident in living memory.

Investigations by Farmers Guardian have found these attacks show no signs of slowing down, as for the third year running, the number of dog attacks on livestock has surpassed 1,000

I was merely trying to make the point that it isn't always down to the fox.

[Firefly]

Cogs, just so, but the hunting brigade need an excuse don't they ! Why not hunt dogs ?

Jackie

[Cogs123]

It is no coincidence that the hunting livery bares a resemblance to a military uniform, their association is well documented.
A uniform of the 18th Century soldier with the number of buttons depicting the ' hierarchy '

We, in my opinion, to our shame, have exported this brutal activity across the globe. America, Canada, Australia & even India, where they used to chase Jackals.
In Australia, the European Fox was introduced solely for the purpose of foxhunting, which led to native animal populations being badly affected, with the extinction of at least 10 species attributed to the spread of foxes...so much for land management.

There are more foxes killed on our roads or shot than killed by hunting, this isn't about land management at all, it's purely & simply about the adrenaline rush, the thrill of the chase & the callous & sadistic blood lust of the barbaric killing of a beautiful wild animal.

Right Wing columnist, James Delingpole wrote in the Spectator recently,

' Before I moved to the country, I was pro-hunting for many reasons, the thrills, the 18th Century Kit, the pageantry, the fact that it wound up so many of the people I loathe the wrong way '

I think that just about sums up the arrogance & contempt that some in the hunting fraternity feels about the majority of the British people.

[Dominic]

That is dwarfed by the arrogance and contempt shown by some in the animal rights lobby about the majority of the British people, who don't think it ok to desecrate graves.

[Dominic]

Dominic,
It was never my intention to denigrate or insult farmers/poultry keepers, perhaps I should have elaborated on the issue, the fox hunters have always demonized the fox as the major instigator in animal attacks.
Living & working in the beautiful county of North Yorks, with a large rural & farming community, we often get reports of dog attacks on livestock.
Many farmers house their ewes during lambing, some that don't, have used Alpacas & certain breeds of dogs as a successful deterrent against foxes.
Poultry owners use electrified mesh in order to keep their birds safe & there are many farmers that value the fox in keeping rabbit numbers down....good husbandry can & does make a huge difference.

BBC Farming Today stated ' In the last five years between Jan 2010 / Dec. 2015, at least one dog a week has been shot for worrying livestock.

Earlier this year, Farmer Gordon Wyeth, lost 116 sheep to a dog attack in what has been described as the ' worst ever ' sheep worrying incident in living memory.

Investigations by Farmers Guardian have found these attacks show no signs of slowing down, as for the third year running, the number of dog attacks on livestock has surpassed 1,000

I was merely trying to make the point that it isn't always down to the fox.

I agree with you about dogs. I was shocked the last time I went for a walk in the Cornish countryside. I sat on a hill and watched a man walking his dog in the distance, completely unconcerned by the fact that it was chasing sheep. When I grew up that was a complete NONO.

[Firefly]

Dominic

Surely the desecration of a grave, is a one off, or have there been more ? Agreed it was a disgusting and disgraceful act, but who says it's ok ?

The killing of innocent wild animals on a regular basis, for the thrill of it, whatever 'thrill' means to them, is done, or has been on a regular basis. Whatever it's origins it might be, fox hunting should remain banned. What about the strength of protest from us, Joe Public, should our feelings be ignored. I'm not a militant animal rights activist, just someone who in childhood lived with the heads of foxes, killed for the pleasure of sick minds.

I'm sick and tired of people making excuses for fox hunting, it is what it is, a fun day out resulting in the agonising bloody death of an beautiful wild animal.

Jackie

[Dominic]

I'm not really pro or against fox hunting these days. When I was young I was against it, but doing my biochemistry degree I saw first hand how dumb some of the animal rights mobs could be. Now, the vast majority are not like that, but for all I know, the vast majority of fox hunters aren't bloodthirsty morons either.

What surprises me more than anything, is how big an issue it is.

[Rita Sherry]

Dominic

Surely the desecration of a grave, is a one off, or have there been more ? Agreed it was a disgusting and disgraceful act, but who says it's ok ?

The killing of innocent wild animals on a regular basis, for the thrill of it, whatever 'thrill' means to them, is done, or has been on a regular basis. Whatever it's origins it might be, fox hunting should remain banned. What about the strength of protest from us, Joe Public, should our feelings be ignored. I'm not a militant animal rights activist, just someone who in childhood lived with the heads of foxes, killed for the pleasure of sick minds.

I'm sick and tired of people making excuses for fox hunting, it is what it is, a fun day out resulting in the agonising bloody death of an beautiful wild animal.

Jackie

Jackie

There has been no fox hunting in England,Scotland and Wales since 2005 (2002 in Scotland) save for Drag Hunting which involves no fox so why on earth is this subject going on and on? no fox is being "torn to bits" etc etc.

If you care to look back at my posts (about four of them in total) you will see I said this earlier and also predicted that should the Conservatives win the coming election the matter of reintroducing fox hunting would be very low in the list of priorities, if at all, to be considered by the Government and if it was my prediction was/is that the result will be the ban should be continued.

What about Joe Public you say - well it was Joe Public who persuaded Parliament to ban the practise and I am pretty confident that will also be the result again. After all there is even a body of Conservative MPs against it (Conservatives Against Fox Hunting) given the inaccurate charge that it was the Conservatives who were sneakily going to bring this back.

So far as your assertion regarding the "grave desecration" is concerned yes it was so far as I am aware only one. However as you will also see from one of my posts those who were charged and sentenced with that crime had followers who spent from 1999 to 2005 threatening and intimidating not only the family but 100 people who either worked or were connected with the farm business culminating in the farm business closing in early 2006. You consider that acceptable? Mob rule springs to mind.

For the record I am neither pro or anti fox hunting I merely stated that when I was a young girl (many moons ago) I used to follow the hunt on my bike along with friends and NEVER witnessed the scenes as described by others on this thread.

As for foxes heads on display - come on Jackie in those days every household practically had stuffed birds or small animals in glass display cabinets of one form or another I think we have moved on a bit. Furthermore if you had fox heads in your home it is doubtful the foxes concerned had been torn to shreds otherwise there would have been no decent head to mount.

I reiterate once again persuasion is one thing violent intimidation does the cause no favours.

You are correct Muslims do not slaughter pigs in any shape or form - yet another myth.

Best wishes and hope the grand daughters are both o.k

Rita


I wish you well.

[Rita Sherry]

Dominic

Surely the desecration of a grave, is a one off, or have there been more ? Agreed it was a disgusting and disgraceful act, but who says it's ok ?

The killing of innocent wild animals on a regular basis, for the thrill of it, whatever 'thrill' means to them, is done, or has been on a regular basis. Whatever it's origins it might be, fox hunting should remain banned. What about the strength of protest from us, Joe Public, should our feelings be ignored. I'm not a militant animal rights activist, just someone who in childhood lived with the heads of foxes, killed for the pleasure of sick minds.

I'm sick and tired of people making excuses for fox hunting, it is what it is, a fun day out resulting in the agonising bloody death of an beautiful wild animal.

Jackie

Jackie

There has been no fox hunting in England,Scotland and Wales since 2005 (2002 in Scotland) save for Drag Hunting which involves no fox so why on earth is this subject going on and on? no fox is being "torn to bits" etc etc.

If you care to look back at my posts (about four of them in total) you will see I said this earlier and also predicted that should the Conservatives win the coming election the matter of reintroducing fox hunting would be very low in the list of priorities, if at all, to be considered by the Government and if it was my prediction was/is that the result will be the ban should be continued.

What about Joe Public you say - well it was Joe Public who persuaded Parliament to ban the practise and I am pretty confident that will also be the result again. After all there is even a body of Conservative MPs against it (Conservatives Against Fox Hunting) given the inaccurate charge that it was the Conservatives who were sneakily going to bring this back.

So far as your assertion regarding the "grave desecration" is concerned yes it was so far as I am aware only one. However as you will also see from one of my posts those who were charged and sentenced with that crime had followers who spent from 1999 to 2005 threatening and intimidating not only the family but 100 people who either worked or were connected with the farm business culminating in the farm business closing in early 2006. You consider that acceptable? Mob rule springs to mind.

For the record I am neither pro or anti fox hunting I merely stated that when I was a young girl (many moons ago) I used to follow the hunt on my bike along with friends and NEVER witnessed the scenes as described by others on this thread.

As for foxes heads on display - come on Jackie in those days practically every household had stuffed birds or small animals in glass display cabinets of one form or another I think we have moved on a bit. Furthermore if you had fox heads in your home it is doubtful the foxes concerned had been torn to shreds otherwise there would have been no decent head to mount.

I reiterate once again persuasion is one thing violent intimidation does the cause no favours.

You are correct Muslims do not slaughter pigs in any shape or form - yet another myth.

Best wishes and hope the grand daughters are both o.k

Rita


I wish you well.

[Firefly]

Bassman

It's only within the past few months that a flock of sheep here in Herefordshire were attacked by two dogs, the resulting carnage was horrific.

Rita

Yes I did live with the heads of foxes, which my mother disposed of when my grandfather died. Actually it is very strange to say that sadly my grandfather died falling down the stairs, the same stairs where the foxes heads were mounted. I have never attended the death of a fox thank God, but I didn't imagine that the head was destroyed by the dogs as well as it's body, I'm sure there are videos of the killing of foxes by hounds, but I'm not prepared to look for one, maybe that's why after so many years of hunting, with so many kills, with different Hunts, granddad had so few to mount. I can't accept your theory about stuffed animals were in practically every household. I was born in '47, maybe posters of my age will post on here whether their household did or did not have a stuffed animal in their homes, to see if you are indeed correct. Certainly I cannot think of one of my friends who had.

Thank you for mentioning my granddaughters, yes they are both fine after their experiences, thank goodness.

Jackie

[kingfisher]

Firefly- admittedly a little off topic, but I had a stuffed kingfisher until I came out here twelve years ago. Found dead in an aircraft hangar, I took to a guy in London called “Get Stuffed”, who did it for about £20 in 1982. It was always a talking point, and appreciated well. A few years ago my dog found a recently electrocuted but perfect long legged buzzard (below wires). Weighing over a kilo, and six foot across the wings, I wanted to get it stuffed, but my wife wouldn’t allow me to put it in the freezer. When I told her later it would have been worth many hundreds stuffed, she got quite cross!

[Firefly]

Kingfisher

Interesting post, I can see why your wife wouldn't want it in the freezer though !

Jackie