Divine retribution?

[Cogs123]

Wow!, so according to the world of WHL, anyone that has an opinion about cruelty to animals, has to keep it to themselves if they eat meat. :shock:
Haven't you espoused on other subjects about the restrictions being put on freedom of speech, or does it only matter when it suits your own narrative :roll:

I have been called many things, but never have I ever been called a ' hypocrite ' before...for your information, though it is neither here nor there as far as this debate goes, I am a VEGETARIAN, & have been for nearly 40years, the reason I became one,
( chicken being my favorite meat at the time ), was because of ' battery hens ' & the conditions they were being kept in.

' Mighty Oaks From Little Acorns Grow '

I shall reiterate once again, foxes are mammals & NOT vermin, the killing of farm animals, as they are indeed predators, has been proven to be mainly about bad farming practices than anything else, & it seems to be of no consequence whether you live rurally or not, the vast majority of British people are against foxhunting.

This Barbaric practice needs to consigned to the history books where it belongs.

[Firefly]

Cogs/Markwoods

Agreed totally, still not one person has told us what pleasure they derive from this barbaric torture, oh no, they call it 'sport' don't they !

So all you hunt members and followers out there, please explain, no usual lame excuses about control of vermin, but the truth.

Jackie

[WHL]

Wow!, so according to the world of WHL, anyone that has an opinion about cruelty to animals, has to keep it to themselves if they eat meat.
Haven't you espoused on other subjects about the restrictions being put on freedom of speech, or does it only matter when it suits your own narrative

I have been called many things, but never have I ever been called a ' hypocrite ' before...for your information, though it is neither here nor there as far as this debate goes, I am a VEGETARIAN, & have been for nearly 40years, the reason I became one,
( chicken being my favorite meat at the time ), was because of ' battery hens ' & the conditions they were being kept in.

' Mighty Oaks From Little Acorns Grow '

I shall reiterate once again, foxes are mammals & NOT vermin, the killing of farm animals, as they are indeed predators, has been proven to be mainly about bad farming practices than anything else, & it seems to be of no consequence whether you live rurally or not, the vast majority of British people are against foxhunting.

This Barbaric practice needs to consigned to the history books where it belongs.

In your World they are cuddly adorable Basil Brush animals, in the Real world they are vermin that need controlling....Im not a lover of Fox Hunting, but none of you have told us of a better way of controlling them.

[Dominic]

Foxes are vermin in the same way rats are.

Blaming bad farming practices is wrong, and downright insulting to farmers and owners of chickens.

However, I disagree strongly with WHL's use of the word "hypocrite".

[WHL]

Ok Dominic ..possibly Hypocrite is too strong a word, But when people eat meat, myself included, how can we pick and choose which animals should live or die?

[Firefly]

WHL

Because we don't EAT foxes !

[WHL]

So if people started eating them (plenty of recipes on Google for fox meat), you would be ok with fox hunting.... Can you tell us where you stand on the eating of Cats and Dogs?

[Firefly]

I think that the people who hunt, should have to eat their prey.

Some nations do eat dogs, as sickening as it is. I think everyone who has posted on this thread know my stance on hunting, and animal welfare, perhaps you missed it.

Jackie

[WHL]

No haven't missed it, thats your stance and good for you, but it dosn,t have to be everybody else's stance.

[PhotoLady]

A couple of points when searching to see if foxes are classed as vermin....

the Masters of Foxhounds Association & Foundation says that “because there is no rabies in the British Isles, populations of fox are extremely high and fox are considered vermin”. Conversely, and closer to home, DEFRA have never categorised foxes as vermin.

And if you search Google for "are foxes vermin" this is what you will find right at the top of the page:

The fox is sometimes referred to as vermin, but it is not, and never has been categorised as such by the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (DEFRA). Some pest controllers charge huge fees to cage-trap nuisance foxes which are then either shot or dumped miles away.

[Firefly]

WHL

No indeed not, but I am entitled to my opinion, whether you like it or not.

[WHL]

WHL

No indeed not, but I am entitled to my opinion, whether you like it or not.

Same Here

[Rita Sherry]

I was rather hoping this thread had run its course but apparently not so - so here goes.

In the event that it is apparently forgotten FOX HUNTING IS ILLEGAL IN THE UK AND HAS BEEN SINCE 2005 (12 years ago) so as far as I am aware the only hunting that is permitted is DRAG HUNTING and there is no fox or any other creature (except hounds) involved in the pursuit. Where therefore is your evidence of foxes being torn to shreds etc etc? If you have such evidence that despite the ban such activity is going on clandestinely may I ask whether you have informed the appropriate authorities of such activity or are you relying on propoganda from those who continue to make spurious claims as to what does or does not go on (sorry did go on) at a hunt meeting and argue on a public forum rather than do anything about it?

Please see my post of Sunday 28th May, paragraph four, for the independent research evidence from Oxford University regarding the demise of the fox during a hunt - not run for miles but 17 minutes (foxes travel at 30mph - you do the maths) and instantaneous death. A nip on the neck from one of the hounds and the creature is dead.

Why can you not accept, as I do, there are differences of opinion on this matter(as others) rather than stir up the venom of almost hatred (or in some instances actual hatred) for those who do not agree with you? Where is your absolute right to demand that others do as you say coming from? Try using persuasion rather than distorted facts to support your stance. It also seems you condone grave robbery in pursuit of your aims to force others to adhere to your wishes.

Without fear of contradiction I am pretty certain that should the Conservatives win the forthcoming General Election the FREE vote on the reintroduction of fox hunting will be pretty low down on the list of matters to be considered and should time actually permit to debate same the result will be exactly as it was in 2004 - A BAN ON FOX HUNTING.

Rita

[Dominic]

So if people started eating them (plenty of recipes on Google for fox meat), you would be ok with fox hunting.... Can you tell us where you stand on the eating of Cats and Dogs?

That's a good point. I do think it hypocritical for people to slag off SE Asia for eating dogs and keeping them cruelly, while turning a blind eye to our own factory farming methods.

Interestingly, on my travels in the 90s, I observed that you are far more likely to get served chicken pretending to be dog, rather than dog pretending to be chicken, as dog meat was more expensive.

[markwoods39]

Not being rude Rita Sherry but you are either in full support for fox hunting and thats your right,. But saying just a nip of the back of the neck will kill the fox !!!!!!! how wrong you are on this it has be proven this statement is so wrong see here https://www.rspca.org.uk/getinvolved/ca ... ting/facts

I have see videos where the fox has been attacked and killed and no way was it a nip to the back of the neck 10 to 15 dogs attacking a fox ? is this right is this what some humans like to do ? if so they are not human in my eyes but evil people.

I could say if supermarket only sold live chickens and i had to kill it myself i could not eat that chicken or even kill it.We just buy our meat from the supermarket not thinking where it came from or how it was killed ? we just buy the meat without thinking really just like we buy a tin of beans its just another product. I refuse to eat Halal meat now but thats another topic.

[WHL]

I was rather hoping this thread had run its course but apparently not so - so here goes.

In the event that it is apparently forgotten FOX HUNTING IS ILLEGAL IN THE UK AND HAS BEEN SINCE 2005 (12 years ago) so as far as I am aware the only hunting that is permitted is DRAG HUNTING and there is no fox or any other creature (except hounds) involved in the pursuit. Where therefore is your evidence of foxes being torn to shreds etc etc? If you have such evidence that despite the ban such activity is going on clandestinely may I ask whether you have informed the appropriate authorities of such activity or are you relying on propoganda from those who continue to make spurious claims as to what does or does not go on (sorry did go on) at a hunt meeting and argue on a public forum rather than do anything about it?

Please see my post of Sunday 28th May, paragraph four, for the independent research evidence from Oxford University regarding the demise of the fox during a hunt - not run for miles but 17 minutes (foxes travel at 30mph - you do the maths) and instantaneous death. A nip on the neck from one of the hounds and the creature is dead.

Why can you not accept, as I do, there are differences of opinion on this matter(as others) rather than stir up the venom of almost hatred (or in some instances actual hatred) for those who do not agree with you? Where is your absolute right to demand that others do as you say coming from? Try using persuasion rather than distorted facts to support your stance. It also seems you condone grave robbery in pursuit of your aims to force others to adhere to your wishes.

Without fear of contradiction I am pretty certain that should the Conservatives win the forthcoming General Election the FREE vote on the reintroduction of fox hunting will be pretty low down on the list of matters to be considered and should time actually permit to debate same the result will be exactly as it was in 2004 - A BAN ON FOX HUNTING.

Rita

Excellent Post

[markwoods39]

Also Rita Sherry if this thread is boring you that much you hoped it would run its course don't read the posts ! you are not forced to read these comments at all just saying

[Habibi2007]

People that love animals do not indulgence in fox hunting it is anethema to them.

[Cogs123]

Rita,
With respect, I find it absolutely outrageous that you have implied in your post that those of us against foxhunting condoned the abhorrent behaviour of the activists that desecrated that poor woman's grave. how dare you, It was a despicable act,carried out by unhinged lunatics, associating us with that vile behaviour just beggars belief.

You are also wrong in your assessment of the foxhunting ban, it is still, sadly, active in Northern Ireland.

[Rita Sherry]

Also Rita Sherry if this thread is boring you that much you hoped it would run its course don't read the posts ! you are not forced to read these comments at all just saying

Markwoods

Here you go again reading what you think I said as opposed to what I actually said - Where did I say I was bored with this thread? The thread initially actually related to an elephant being killed by game hunters in Africa and very quickly got hijacked into fox hunting. If you read my first post you will see I posted regarding the Ivory Trade or rather lack of it in the UK (its illegal in the UK and has been for many many years). Given the nature of many of the posts relating to fox hunting I then posted my take on the subject because when I was much younger I used to follow the hunt on my bike along with friends and will repeat I never witnessed many of the incidents which you and others have described and posed the question whether or not any of you had ever been to a properly organised hunt meeting as opposed to seeing videos. My observations are contained in my post.

The phrase "hoped it had run its course" if you had read it properly was to say both sides of the argument have expressed their views ad infinitum and appeared to me that everything that could be said had been said - nothing more and nothing less and I still believe that to be the case.

Thank you for the link to the RSPCA and it is interesting to note that organisation refers to Sir Terence Burns' (now Lord Burns) report to which I also drew attention in my post but with respect they have rather cherry picked what is in that report so I would suggest you read the actual report itself. Terry used to be a neighbour of mine when I lived in Ealing (London) and we were both members of the same golf club but I dont recall ever asking him or he volunteering what his personal views were on the subject - I relied on the facts as expressed in the report based as they were in part on evidence from research undertaken by Oxford University.

If you read all my post to which you have replied you cannot have missed my assertion that the anti hunt posters have invariably expressed views hostile to anyone who just might have a different take on the matter for reasons expressed. Now I firmly believe that people have the right to express their views which may or may not differ from my own. What they and you are not entitled to do is attempt to stop me expressing mine. You doubtless are aware of the threats and intimidation visited on people with differing views by some not all anti hunt protesters and that is something I most definitely am opposed to and does not in my view endear one to their cause. Dictating what someone can or cannot do is totally wrong but friendly persuasion just might do the trick but dont be surprised if that is not always the case - it is the nature of the beast we call humans.

Just for the record my brother and I had a pet fox cub (which my brother found - he was always finding lost animals even before they were lost) until it was 3 years old when it had to be put to sleep and he rescued a deer which knocked on his door with its antlers when being chased by dogs (domestic) which he later released in the woods.

Rita

I repeat fox hunting is banned in the UK and it is my belief it will remain so if a further vote is taken on the matter