Cost of self employment

[Lofos-Jan]

Just to confirm that you don't need proof from an accountant to get the reduction. You can submit the form and make the declaration yourself.

Jeanne

Quite right

As I only work part time, I do this social security reduction claim every year. The form is in in Greek, but once you have a translation, it is quite simple.

You take the form to a dedicated office at Social Security with whatever proof of income you have. I always take my previous year tax return and my VAT returns. I have never used an accountant or got extra forms from tax. The Cypriots I see going in front of me don't have accountants proof either as they don't use an accountant either.

This is another nice little earner for the accountants, that you don't need to pay out for!

From this year we were asked for a earnings declaration from the accountants, plus the usual form you fill in....Im not making this up......have you submitted a reduction claim form this year??

Yes, my close friend did hers this year at the end of February. It was same as all other years and she took only her previous year tax return. There is absolutely no need for an accountant. They may have ask you if you have proof of income 'from your accountant' just assuming you have one perhaps?

Jeanne

[WHL]

Yes we have an accountant....just filled the form...took it to social office this year (January) this time they wanted the declaration, said it was a new requirement, well we got it and will be taking this week..

[geoffreys]

Geoff are your should's as reliable as your exchange rate and UKIP winning a seat in Parliament predications?

Well I was right about:
1. Brexit being the result of the refendum.
2. Trump being elected as US President.
Regards the currency predictions they were not mine but from my chums in the City. However the rate HAS gone up by over
2.5%.
Would you prefer it to have gone down?
Re UKIP - well I cannot get them all right!
Re UK Pensions most of us have them paid in the UK, we had no option, DWP insisted on it at the time of the Cyprus economic
crash.
However, if paid here they will still attract annual increases as the arrangements for that were in place before Cyprus joined the EU and will stay in place after UK leaves the EU.
Ignore the scaremongerers!
Even better prosperity for the UK will result from Brexit.
Geoff.
UKIP Member (don't forget it was UKIP that brought about the referendum!).
(say: THANK YOU UKIP).

[Lofos-Jan]

Yes we have an accountant....just filled the form...took it to social office this year (January) this time they wanted the declaration, said it was a new requirement, well we got it and will be taking this week..

Sorry I wasn't asking personally, I just meant that the Social Insurance assumed you had an accountant. It seems that maybe they asked for the form as they know you already use an accountant. As far as I am aware there is only one lady who does the reductions so it seems very strange as I know others who have had no problem at all with making the declaration themselves. It seems that if you don't have an accountant, you self declare, if you have an accountant, they formally declare on your behalf.

Jeanne

[Poppy]

Hi Jeba
UK residents living in the EU and various other countries get their annual pension increases which they also received in Cyprus prior to Cyprus being in the EU due to a reciprocal agreement between the two countries however some people are concerned that this may not be the case after Brexit,others are sure that the same agreement will stand. In truth nobody knows as with all other aspects of Brexit and can only speculate.

[WHL]

Just went with my wife to the social office, and I asked them why they needed the declaration from the accountant, her reply,,,, this is how it will be from now on, she printed something off, gave it to my wife, and we went and paid the same rate as last year.

[Polemi Dave]

WHL
Can you imagine what a local accountant will say, if someone who he has never seen before walks into his office and asks him to stamp a declaration of earnings.

Obviously he is going to say "I am not your accountant, to be your accountant I need to do your books and charge you for all your bookkeeping."
If you are a low earner your income will not justify paying an accountant, who's charges could in theory be equal or more than your net income.

Not going to work is it? You pay out €1000 ~€2000 in accountancy fees, just to save a few hundred in social security contributions. Either someone at Social Security has not thought this through, or you have been given half a story. See Lofos -Jan's post above.

[geoffreys]

Hi Jeba
UK residents living in the EU and various other countries get their annual pension increases which they also received in Cyprus prior to Cyprus being in the EU due to a reciprocal agreement between the two countries however some people are concerned that this may not be the case after Brexit,others are sure that the same agreement will stand. In truth nobody knows as with all other aspects of Brexit and can only speculate.

We DO know, nothing will change regards increases to UK State Pensions paid here.
This has nothing to do with the EU, or whether either or both UK and Cyprus are or are not EU Members.
Same applies to health care of UK State Pensioners choosing to live in sunny Cyprus.
It may/may not change for other categories of UK citizens living in Cyprus.
I am getting tired if having to repeat myself on all this on the forum/s.
Geoff.

[Polemi Dave]

I am getting tired if having to repeat myself on all this on the forum/s.
Geoff.

To the "Pit" with him Dom

[WHL]

WHL
Can you imagine what a local accountant will say, if someone who he has never seen before walks into his office and asks him to stamp a declaration of earnings.

Obviously he is going to say "I am not your accountant, to be your accountant I need to do your books and charge you for all your bookkeeping."
If you are a low earner your income will not justify paying an accountant, who's charges could in theory be equal or more than your net income.

Not going to work is it? You pay out €1000 ~€2000 in accountancy fees, just to save a few hundred in social security contributions. Either someone at Social Security has not thought this through, or you have been given half a story. See Lofos -Jan's post above.

The Tax office stamped the declaration, we got from the accountant...... This thread is getting a bit tiresome now...... I just told every one our experience as it happened....no more no less...as for your accountancy fees , your way out with your figures, any way im done with this thread over and out

[Polemi Dave]

.as for your accountancy fees , your way out with your figures, any way im done with this thread over and out

Well thanks for the contribution anyway We had a small company from 2008 to 2011. The fees were near €800 for the audited accounts and a further €1000 PA for the accountant to do social security, VAT. The company filing fees and government add on charges added a further €200 approx PA.

We came to the conclusion that my wife and I were working to keep the accountant and the government, so we closed down the company and sacked the accountant - nice chap that he is! So after all these years perhaps I am well out on current charges.

[PhotoLady]

We DO know, nothing will change regards increases to UK State Pensions paid here.
This has nothing to do with the EU, or whether either or both UK and Cyprus are or are not EU Members.
Same applies to health care of UK State Pensioners choosing to live in sunny Cyprus.
It may/may not change for other categories of UK citizens living in Cyprus.
I am getting tired if having to repeat myself on all this on the forum/s.
Geoff.

The replies from the FCO video conference yesterday have now been put up..... this is just one of the responses:

FCO travel - travel advice from the Foreign Office ·
Some of you asked about accessing healthcare, social services and other benefits immediately if you return to the UK after the UK leaves the EU.
We understand that you will want to have answers to these questions to allow you to plan for the future. Until we leave the EU, the same rules as now will apply.
Future arrangements are likely to be dependent on our negotiations with other EU countries to secure the status of citizens living in the EU and UK.
The government wants to agree these as soon as possible.

[Lofos-Jan]

WHL
Can you imagine what a local accountant will say, if someone who he has never seen before walks into his office and asks him to stamp a declaration of earnings.

Obviously he is going to say "I am not your accountant, to be your accountant I need to do your books and charge you for all your bookkeeping."
If you are a low earner your income will not justify paying an accountant, who's charges could in theory be equal or more than your net income.

Not going to work is it? You pay out €1000 ~€2000 in accountancy fees, just to save a few hundred in social security contributions. Either someone at Social Security has not thought this through, or you have been given half a story. See Lofos -Jan's post above.

The Tax office stamped the declaration, we got from the accountant...... This thread is getting a bit tiresome now...... I just told every one our experience as it happened....no more no less...as for your accountancy fees , your way out with your figures, any way im done with this thread over and out

Ah I think I understand now where the confusion is. The 'declaration' you are referring to is in fact your 'tax return' which is why it is submitted and stamped by the tax office. A copy of the previous year tax return is indeed required by Social Insurance for the reduction claim but you don't need an accountant to submit it to the tax office in the first place. You choose to get an accountant to do your tax return for you but Polemi Dave and many others do their own tax returns for the tax office without using the services of an accountant. Hope this clarifies it for you - please don't get frustrated - we are all just trying to give the right advice.

Jeanne

[WHL]

WHL
Can you imagine what a local accountant will say, if someone who he has never seen before walks into his office and asks him to stamp a declaration of earnings.

Obviously he is going to say "I am not your accountant, to be your accountant I need to do your books and charge you for all your bookkeeping."
If you are a low earner your income will not justify paying an accountant, who's charges could in theory be equal or more than your net income.

Not going to work is it? You pay out €1000 ~€2000 in accountancy fees, just to save a few hundred in social security contributions. Either someone at Social Security has not thought this through, or you have been given half a story. See Lofos -Jan's post above.

The Tax office stamped the declaration, we got from the accountant...... This thread is getting a bit tiresome now...... I just told every one our experience as it happened....no more no less...as for your accountancy fees , your way out with your figures, any way im done with this thread over and out

Ah I think I understand now where the confusion is. The 'declaration' you are referring to is in fact your 'tax return' which is why it is submitted and stamped by the tax office. A copy of the previous year tax return is indeed required by Social Insurance for the reduction claim but you don't need an accountant to submit it to the tax office in the first place. You choose to get an accountant to do your tax return for you but Polemi Dave and many others do their own tax returns for the tax office without using the services of an accountant. Hope this clarifies it for you - please don't get frustrated - we are all just trying to give the right advice.

Jeanne

HI Jeanne...you are correct, but up to now my wife has done her own book keeping....filled the form up and taken it to the Social office.....we did this in January, but were told from this year,,we would need a declaration from an accountant then stamped at the Tax office and then the social....we did this today,, and she printed off a slip which we took to the cashier who took our payment the same amount as previous years...I asked her why they needed a declaration from an accountant and she told us this is the way it has to be from now on....

[Lofos-Jan]

The Tax office stamped the declaration, we got from the accountant...... This thread is getting a bit tiresome now...... I just told every one our experience as it happened....no more no less...as for your accountancy fees , your way out with your figures, any way im done with this thread over and out

Ah I think I understand now where the confusion is. The 'declaration' you are referring to is in fact your 'tax return' which is why it is submitted and stamped by the tax office. A copy of the previous year tax return is indeed required by Social Insurance for the reduction claim but you don't need an accountant to submit it to the tax office in the first place. You choose to get an accountant to do your tax return for you but Polemi Dave and many others do their own tax returns for the tax office without using the services of an accountant. Hope this clarifies it for you - please don't get frustrated - we are all just trying to give the right advice.

Jeanne

HI Jeanne...you are correct, but up to now my wife has done her own book keeping....filled the form up and taken it to the Social office.....we did this in January, but were told from this year,,we would need a declaration from an accountant then stamped at the Tax office and then the social....we did this today,, and she printed off a slip which we took to the cashier who took our payment the same amount as previous years...I asked her why they needed a declaration from an accountant and she told us this is the way it has to be from now on....

Hi there. Sorry to go on about it. They don't need an 'accountant's declaration' - such a thing does not exist. Despite mentioning the word 'accountant', what they mean and need is a copy of your annual tax return from the previous year. They have just assumed that your tax returns are submitted to the tax office by an accountant but your wife could complete the annual tax return herself, get it stamped at the tax office, then give a copy to the Social Insurance office with her reduction application - all without the need for an accountant as thousands of others do each year. The need for a tax return copy is now being enforced to make sure that every self employed person is also registered with the tax authorities. Many previously were not but it is now a legal requirement.

My advice is that next time you go into the Social Insurance office, you should point out that they have misled you by calling it an 'accountant's declaration' when they should in fact just be saying 'tax return'.

So to clarify for those that have asked:

You should complete annually the Social Insurance form for a reduction (can be obtained from Social Insurance office) and with it, you will to hand in a copy of your annual Tax return from the previous year.

To register for tax (you will not need an accountant unless you want one), just go along to the tax office, complete a registration form and your tax return will be sent to you for submission annually. It can also be submitted online via the government 'Taxisnet' website.

Jeanne

[Rita Sherry]

Please accept Jeanne's (lofus Jan) advice which is absolutely correct. Some of us expats utilise the services of Accountants because tax liabilities are slightly more complex than straight forward earnings etc - not all tax liabilities are necessarily straight forward. Jeanne knows what she is talking about on this particular aspect as indeed many others relating to Cypriot customs.

Rita













accountants