Pound/ Euro

[cyprusgrump]

I have absolutely no idea why this has ended up in The Pit...?

[Wallace]

.???? Why the pit?

[Dominic]

You are right actually. I moved the wrong thread.

[cyprusgrump]

You are right actually. I moved the wrong thread.

[Wallace]

Thanks Dominic.

[geoffreys]

What you should be doing is just accept the referendum result and get behind it by supporting it and supporting the UK Govt in implementing it. Geoff.

Geoff, why should I 'get behind and support' one of the more crass decisions (i.m.o.) ever made by a nation state; one which was very narrowly won (and yes, I accept that Brexiteers won the argument)...and for which I believe a heavy penalty will be paid in the years ahead?

I equally believe that Trump winning the election was a big mistake for the American people. Are you suggesting that because Trump won I should change my views of him and support his principles and policies?

When Bush and Blair decided to invade Iraq on the flawed pretext of WMD I had serious differences of opinion with our son in the UK and a very dear Republican friend of ours who lives in America. I stated that meddling in Iraq's affairs was going to open a whole new can of worms and would end badly. Would you have had me go against my principles and support Blair by way of patriotic sense of duty?

The debate went on for some time: son and friend stuck to their opinions...and I to mine.

Ten years on I was proven right.

I think you will be proved wrong this time.
Geoff.

[Uncle D]

Britain will become independent from Europe, but a heck of a lot more dependant on the USA

[Conoflex]

Hate to point out the obvious but everyone in Europe is totally dependent on the US- without them we would never had made it throughout the Cold War

The vote to leave had little to do with economics- it was all about sovereignty.There is a world of difference between sensible border controls and racism

Oddly enough Trump and Brexit will not only enhance UK sovereignty (the object of the Brexit exercise) these developments will save the UK from the potential implications of TTIP which the European Union and Obama were so keen to implement on us.

Britain may or may not get a trade deal with the US, but no deal is better than a bad deal and the implications of TTIP for a Britain in the European Union were potentially disastrous

Cyprus Mail alluded to a few of the implications today - not really what anyone who values living in a democracy should be too keen on surely ?

http://cyprus-mail.com/2017/01/26/anima ... stop-ttip/

[Steve - SJD]

The vote to leave had little to do with economics- it was all about sovereignty.There is a world of difference between sensible border controls and racism

Great so the vote wasn't about economics - instead let's potentially damage the economy for years
to come on the basis of sovereignty and some unrealistic idea that when we leave that will
significantly reduce/stop immigration any time soon.

Even the most optimistic suggest that the UK is in for a long period of upheaval - I doubt at the
end whether people will think it was all worth it.

Cheers

Steve

[cyprusgrump]

The vote to leave had little to do with economics- it was all about sovereignty.There is a world of difference between sensible border controls and racism

Great so the vote wasn't about economics - instead let's potentially damage the economy for years
to come on the basis of sovereignty and some unrealistic idea that when we leave that will
significantly reduce/stop immigration any time soon.

Even the most optimistic suggest that the UK is in for a long period of upheaval - I doubt at the
end whether people will think it was all worth it.

Cheers

Steve

I think if the EU was perfect and/or open to reform that argument may have carried the day.

But we can see it isn't perfect, is unwilling to reform and is heading towards a federal superstate that makes many of us feel uncomfortable.

[Conoflex]

It's also heading for an economic train crash because of it's unwillingness to change or reform.

Brexit won't be to blame for that- the causes for that lie squarely with the EU and it's failing policies. You can be for or against Brexit and argue a good case either way, but anyone who thinks the Euro is a workable idea is an idiot

[cyprusgrump]

There are few institutions or governments in the World which are perfect and not open to criticism. I suspect that some of the most vociferous posters on this forum would be unhappy wherever they lived in the World, because that's what they do best: moan and groan about anything and everything. I've always said the EU is far from perfect, but it's what we have and it has a lot going for it. And I'm not uncomfortable with the way the EU is perceived to be headed either. As Steve-SJD says, in a year or two's time it will be interesting to see whether the supposed increase in sovereignty is compensated for by the upheaval, and cost of same, which lies ahead.

'Far from perfect' doesn't even come near to describing the enormity of the problems facing the EU in my opinion...

...but as you say, the proof of the pudding will be to see where we are in a couple of years.

[Firefly]

Steve

I think you're dead right, it wasn't about economics, for me it was about control of immigration and regaining the right to make our own laws. I'm no racist far from it, but we in the UK could see that we are unable to sustain the levels of spending on a ever growing population, without sacrifice, plus the fact that I didn't want to be ruled by Germany and France anymore, nor my children or grandchildren.

My Son and Daughter also voted for Brexit, as did my Granddaughter, without my influence I hasten to add.

Jackie

[Steve - SJD]

Steve

I think you're dead right, it wasn't about economics, for me it was about control of immigration and regaining the right to make our own laws. I'm no racist far from it, but we in the UK could see that we are unable to sustain the levels of spending on a ever growing population...

I understand Jackie and you are not alone in that thinking. I don't believe though that it will reduce
immigration as significantly as some would want or are expecting. The UK may well gain back some
control but whether that will be reflected in big drops in immigration is unlikely - time will tell whether
it is a price worth paying.

Cheers

Steve

[Wallace]

Steve

I think you're dead right, it wasn't about economics, for me it was about control of immigration and regaining the right to make our own laws. I'm no racist far from it, but we in the UK could see that we are unable to sustain the levels of spending on a ever growing population...

I understand Jackie and you are not alone in that thinking. I don't believe though that it will reduce
immigration as significantly as some would want or are expecting. The UK may well gain back some
control but whether that will be reflected in big drops in immigration is unlikely - time will tell whether
it is a price worth paying.

Cheers

Steve

I agree Steve, immigration will continue, but perhaps on a more selective basis. The U.K. Needs immigrants due to an aging population, and sectors of our current population where the benefits system precludes active employment.

[Jimgym]

It was about many things for many people. The UK WILL gain more control, that was one of the major issues, too much by being given to Brussels.

[Wallace]

It was about many things for many people. The UK WILL gain more control, that was one of the major issues, too much by being given to Brussels.

I agree, I voted no, but may be changing my view.

Wallace

[keving]

It occurs to me that the Government got a very clear signal last June that the majority of the public want to see a decrease in net migration. So what has the government implemented to reduce immigration from non-EU countries?

[Dominic]

The U.K. Needs immigrants due to an aging population, and sectors of our current population where the benefits system precludes active employment.

Very good point.

[Steve - SJD]

It occurs to me that the Government got a very clear signal last June that the majority of the public want to see a decrease in net migration. So what has the government implemented to reduce immigration from non-EU countries?

Well i'm not sure the vote translates to the majority wanting to see a decrease in net migration but
yes certainly it was a focal point for many people. Immigration from non-EU countries is on a points
system I believe so it is already under some control and am not sure what more at this stage the
Govt. can do. So despite the headlines of uncontrolled immigration there are controls that cover
over half of the immigration coming in to the UK.

Those who voted on the basis of reducing immigration may find in a few years time that any
reduction is relatively small - if at all and further risks the public services they wish to help.

Cheers

Steve