So, the DUP suddenly becomes the most powerful party in present Europe

[Jimgward]

A party stuck in the 17th century, openly bigoted, sectarian and with links to paramilitaries, but endorsed by May and her more than £1bn handout/bribe....

A deal is about to be struck between May and Junker..... then the DUP has a press conference and ultimatum..... May leaves the talks to call Foster.... returns and the talks collapse.

I hate to say I told you so, but the warnings were there when this shady deal was done. I think this could be the final nail in the coffin of May and chaos for final stages of Brexit negotiations.

God help us all....

[Dominic]

No they aren't. Eire is part of the EU.

If I was May I would call the DUP's bluff.

[Jimgward]

Notwithstanding your views of the DUP, they have a point...Northern Ireland is part of the UK, and the UK will leave the EU, Ms Sturgeon and the Major of London have already jumped on the bandwagon and insisting any "special arrangement" can also apply to Scotland and London! Eire and the EU are playing games and trying to undermine the sovereignty of the United Kingdom.

They aren’t necessarily ‘my views’ - they’re facts, acknowledged by most. They’re in a position of power, only because May prostituted her party.

The result is that a chink of light on Brexit has been extinguished by a group struggling to justify their existence.

As Dominic said, Eire cannot be faulted here. They’re part of the EU and want to reserve their own existing rights for fee movement on the Island of Ireland. The British are being disadvantaged here.

[Mrblobby]

Was May so stupid to think she could agree to Northern Ireland remaining ruled by the EU after Brexit ? Well done DUP .

[exodus]

I am confused, probably because I am not of UK origin.
Does the "DUP" want a hard or soft (= none!) border with Eire?
Amos.

[Uncle D]

Hard

[Jimgward]

I am confused, probably because I am not of UK origin.
Does the "DUP" want a hard or soft (= none!) border with Eire?
Amos.

Actually, they want a soft border, but exact same conditions as the rest of the U.K.

That means, if the Uk ends up with a hard brexit and no membership of the EE zone, with no freedom of movement, they want that in NI, along with a soft border. (impossible)

NI voted strongly to Remain, but the DUP are the largest party and voted to leave. They now have policies impossible to placate, UNLESS the entire U.K. has free movement of people and goods. Anything else and the DUP would then change it’s policy to a hard border and uproar would entail, possibly jeopardising the good Friday agreement.

[exodus]

Thanks Uncle D and Jimgward for your replies.
I wonder though how all this is going to end up. Quite frankly it would be in our (i.e. Israel's) best interests if Brexit failed and the UK remained an EU Member State.
I wonder what the DUP would feel about that if it happened?
You guys sure do live in interesting times.
Amos.

[Varky]

Notwithstanding the Good Friday Agreement, the DUP want to remain a part of the UK even if this means a hard Brexit with border posts with Eire. The last thing they want is a situation where they are treated differently to the rest of the UK as this might give encouragement to Eire for unification of NI within Eire.
Eire does not want any arrangement that would appear to separate Eire and NI as this would cement the geo-political status quo and thwart their hopes and intentions for a united Ireland, hence their threat to veto any arrangement that would appear to establish border controls between Eire and NI.
I find it difficult for any foreign country to insist that there should be no border controls between sovereign countries where no customs union exists. If the EU continues to insist that Eire has the veto on any border arrangements between Eire and the UK (NI) then things are going to go nowhere.

Of course the EU has put their own self imposed conditions that they will not accept further progress on Brexit negotiations in the way of customs and trade until the matter of the Eire/NI border is resolved. This condition does not form part of Article 50. If they did accept that further such negotiations could commence then maybe there would be a way to sort this all out a lot easier. Maybe this is what the EU want but, as with EU intransigence when David Cameron sought alternative arrangements with UK staying in the EU which resulted in the present Brexit situation we could end up with a hard Brexit with UK falling back on WTO rules which would be in neither EU or UK interests. EU intransigence rears its ugly head again.

It is incorrect to lay the blame wholly at the door of the DUP for the present impasse. The Irish government and the EU are equally to blame.

[exodus]

Notwithstanding the Good Friday Agreement, the DUP want to remain a part of the UK even if this means a hard Brexit with border posts with Eire. The last thing they want is a situation where they are treated differently to the rest of the UK as this might give encouragement to Eire for unification of NI within Eire.
Eire does not want any arrangement that would appear to separate Eire and NI as this would cement the geo-political status quo and thwart their hopes and intentions for a united Ireland, hence their threat to veto any arrangement that would appear to establish border controls between Eire and NI.
I find it difficult for any foreign country to insist that there should be no border controls between sovereign countries where no customs union exists. If the EU continues to insist that Eire has the veto on any border arrangements between Eire and the UK (NI) then things are going to go nowhere.

Of course the EU has put their own self imposed conditions that they will not accept further progress on Brexit negotiations in the way of customs and trade until the matter of the Eire/NI border is resolved. This condition does not form part of Article 50. If they did accept that further such negotiations could commence then maybe there would be a way to sort this all out a lot easier. Maybe this is what the EU want but, as with EU intransigence when David Cameron sought alternative arrangements with UK staying in the EU which resulted in the present Brexit situation we could end up with a hard Brexit with UK falling back on WTO rules which would be in neither EU or UK interests. EU intransigence rears its ugly head again.

It is incorrect to lay the blame wholly at the door of the DUP for the present impasse. The Irish government and the EU are equally to blame.

Thanks for that.
As an outsider it all looks to me as an (apparently successful) attempt by the EU to "Divide and Rule".
An attempt to ensure UK remains an EU Member State, so avoiding the ultimate breakup of the EU.
I would be happy if they succeed!
So I suppose I am a "remainer"
Amos.

[Jimgward]

Eire has no mandate, nor intentions at this time, to try to unify the 32 counties into a united Ireland. It could not afford the huge bill for public sector, that the UK currently pays NI, for a start.

The population of NI would not vote for unification. The population of Eire would not vote to take in the other counties. So, the assumption that the Irish PM is trying to 'play loose' is incorrect.

There are 267 official crossing points between Eire and NI. It would be impossible to create a hard border. Everyone knows this. It didn't happen during the troubles, as it was impossible to manage.

There is free movement of peoples at present and many families are split across the border. The population of NI are Irish and citizens of the UK (but not British) at the same time. Many hundreds of thousands have successfully applied and taken Irish passports, from NI. That doesn't mean that they are close to unification. They are still many decades away from even putting it on the agenda.

The Unionist parties will lose their overall majority with the next decade or so (based on population demographics) That still doesn't mean that the non-unionists are all Nationalists, nor des it mean than all unionist voters would not want to be part of Eire. There have not even been close polls showing support for unification, on either sides of the border.

The EU has highlighted an inherent problem caused by Brexit that Ireland, quite rightly, has brought up before agreements are concluded. As a EU member, Ireland is entitled to EU support for it's case. Why is it therefore Ireland who are 'playing loose' when it was actually a proposal by the UK that caused this latest furore. A proposal that is naive in the extreme by May, especially based on her 'pact' with the DUP.

[Jimgward]

For Northern Ireland, the deal AS INITIALLY AGREED would be inarguably positive.

It would leave open the possibility of maintaining the North’s special status, thereby limiting its exposure to the worst effects of Brexit and giving it a competitive advantage over other parts of the UK.

The DUP’s opposition to special status is more political stagecraft than principled conviction. The Belfast Agreement enshrines Northern Ireland’s special status. The region already opts out of many British laws the DUP doesn’t like, and, as unionist support for a 12.5 per cent corporate tax rate in the North shows, it has long ago conceded the principle of regulatory alignment with the Republic.

The same goes for its supposed opposition to goods controls in the Irish Sea – a position that already obtains for animal and plant products.

[Varky]

jimgward,
I think your opinion regarding a desire on the part of Eire regarding unification, despite your mentioned reasons for Eire not wanting to pursue unification, to be far from reality. If they could, they would unify.

[Varky]

Thanks for that.
As an outsider it all looks to me as an (apparently successful) attempt by the EU to "Divide and Rule".
An attempt to ensure UK remains an EU Member State, so avoiding the ultimate breakup of the EU.
I would be happy if they succeed!
Amos.

I think the ultimate break up of the EU has been portrayed in the past as an imminent event which would be brought on by Brexit. This is just wishful thinking on the part of Brexiteers. Italy and Greece are still part of the EU and I see no signs of any other country wishing to opt out at the cost of losing all the benefits available. Personally I still think Brexit is the right way forward but I am realistic enough to realise that the UK situation will not be easy over the short term.

[josef k]

There seems to be a bit of confusion in some quarters regarding what the DUP wants. They want a "soft" border so as to facilitate continued trade and movement of goods (i.e. retain the benefits of the single market). They also don't want a border to be set up between Northern Ireland and Britain, as they believe this will weaken their position as being part of the UK. Therefore the only way to keep them happy would be for the whole UK to carry on within the single market. However, to do so would put the UK in the position of Norway, where they would carry on paying into the EU, but without any influence on EU policy (i.e. not Brexit at all) Nevertheless, the DUP campaigned to leave the EU, so clearly didn't understand what that would mean for them.

It you think that is all difficult, we haven't even started talking about Gibraltar yet.

[Jimgward]

Easy solution, give Scotland NI access to the single market they want and make the border between Scotland and England. There are only a handful of crossing points.

All NI traffic must enter Scotland and no routes for NI freight direct to England.

Sorted.

(I should be a politician - Nicola happy, Arlene..... (never happy))

[Jimgward]

jimgward,
I think your opinion regarding a desire on the part of Eire regarding unification, despite your mentioned reasons for Eire not wanting to pursue unification, to be far from reality. If they could, they would unify.

Where is there any evidence of that? Polls? Arguments in the Irish parliament? Discussions even?

[Varky]

jimgward,
I think your opinion regarding a desire on the part of Eire regarding unification, despite your mentioned reasons for Eire not wanting to pursue unification, to be far from reality. If they could, they would unify.

Where is there any evidence of that? Polls? Arguments in the Irish parliament? Discussions even?

It's in their genes! What was the root cause of the troubles in Ulster about?

[Jimgward]

jimgward,
I think your opinion regarding a desire on the part of Eire regarding unification, despite your mentioned reasons for Eire not wanting to pursue unification, to be far from reality. If they could, they would unify.

Where is there any evidence of that? Polls? Arguments in the Irish parliament? Discussions even?

It's in their genes! What was the root cause of the troubles in Ulster about?

Well, if you mean, a bit like it is in the genes of the Cypriots to unify the island, then yes, it is likely an ultimate aim.... but not anytime soon.... I’d guess not even for decades....

If our are being derogatory, then I dont know what to say to you,.,.,.,

[jeba]

If the EU continues to insist that Eire has the veto on any border arrangements between Eire and the UK (NI) then things are going to go nowhere.

Is there even some leeway? Doesn´t each member state have the right to veto an agreement?