Divine retribution?

[Habibi2007]

People that love animals do not indulgence in fox hunting it is anethema to them.

[Cogs123]

Rita,
With respect, I find it absolutely outrageous that you have implied in your post that those of us against foxhunting condoned the abhorrent behaviour of the activists that desecrated that poor woman's grave. how dare you, It was a despicable act,carried out by unhinged lunatics, associating us with that vile behaviour just beggars belief.

You are also wrong in your assessment of the foxhunting ban, it is still, sadly, active in Northern Ireland.

[Rita Sherry]

Also Rita Sherry if this thread is boring you that much you hoped it would run its course don't read the posts ! you are not forced to read these comments at all just saying

Markwoods

Here you go again reading what you think I said as opposed to what I actually said - Where did I say I was bored with this thread? The thread initially actually related to an elephant being killed by game hunters in Africa and very quickly got hijacked into fox hunting. If you read my first post you will see I posted regarding the Ivory Trade or rather lack of it in the UK (its illegal in the UK and has been for many many years). Given the nature of many of the posts relating to fox hunting I then posted my take on the subject because when I was much younger I used to follow the hunt on my bike along with friends and will repeat I never witnessed many of the incidents which you and others have described and posed the question whether or not any of you had ever been to a properly organised hunt meeting as opposed to seeing videos. My observations are contained in my post.

The phrase "hoped it had run its course" if you had read it properly was to say both sides of the argument have expressed their views ad infinitum and appeared to me that everything that could be said had been said - nothing more and nothing less and I still believe that to be the case.

Thank you for the link to the RSPCA and it is interesting to note that organisation refers to Sir Terence Burns' (now Lord Burns) report to which I also drew attention in my post but with respect they have rather cherry picked what is in that report so I would suggest you read the actual report itself. Terry used to be a neighbour of mine when I lived in Ealing (London) and we were both members of the same golf club but I dont recall ever asking him or he volunteering what his personal views were on the subject - I relied on the facts as expressed in the report based as they were in part on evidence from research undertaken by Oxford University.

If you read all my post to which you have replied you cannot have missed my assertion that the anti hunt posters have invariably expressed views hostile to anyone who just might have a different take on the matter for reasons expressed. Now I firmly believe that people have the right to express their views which may or may not differ from my own. What they and you are not entitled to do is attempt to stop me expressing mine. You doubtless are aware of the threats and intimidation visited on people with differing views by some not all anti hunt protesters and that is something I most definitely am opposed to and does not in my view endear one to their cause. Dictating what someone can or cannot do is totally wrong but friendly persuasion just might do the trick but dont be surprised if that is not always the case - it is the nature of the beast we call humans.

Just for the record my brother and I had a pet fox cub (which my brother found - he was always finding lost animals even before they were lost) until it was 3 years old when it had to be put to sleep and he rescued a deer which knocked on his door with its antlers when being chased by dogs (domestic) which he later released in the woods.

Rita

I repeat fox hunting is banned in the UK and it is my belief it will remain so if a further vote is taken on the matter

[Rita Sherry]

Rita,
With respect, I find it absolutely outrageous that you have implied in your post that those of us against foxhunting condoned the abhorrent behaviour of the activists that desecrated that poor woman's grave. how dare you, It was a despicable act,carried out by unhinged lunatics, associating us with that vile behaviour just beggars belief.

You are also wrong in your assessment of the foxhunting ban, it is still, sadly, active in Northern Ireland.

Cogs

Please read paragraph 7 of my 28th May post - I neither alleged or implied that those of you against foxhunting condoned the abhorrent behaviour of the activists..... I was pointing out that there were rogue people in all organisations and that animal activists were not all squeaky clean and gave an example. That threatening behaviour went on from 1999 to 2005/6 until some (not all) were convicted. Might I add that apart from the grave incident gthe lives of over 100 other people connected with the farm were subject to threats etc by those people and the business finally closed in 2006.

You are correct about Northern Ireland of course - my apologies. The ban would have been imposed there were it not for the creation of the National Assembly and the subject was therefore devolved to that body who rejected the bill. It is however, as I am sure you are aware, illegal to fox hunt in England, Wales & Scotland.

Rita

[jagwheels]

I may be shot down but is this thread becoming too endeared with animals welfare when to me human life seems so expendable in today's world

[PhotoLady]

Norv, that was a point I made in an earlier post. Just two days ago 90 innocent men, women and children were blown to smithereens in Kabul, with a further 300 seriously injured. Didn't even rate a mention on an ex-pat forum

Actually, I posted about an earlier attack on families and children which appeared to fall on stony ground....
viewtopic.php?f=19&t=1786&p=20119#p20119

I saw little point in wasting more time on people who don't want to listen.

[ApusApus]

I may be shot down but is this thread becoming too endeared with animals welfare when to me human life seems so expendable in today's world

Possibly ............... and possibly!


Shane

[PhotoLady]

But there was such a post, not in this thread..... As I already indicated.

You chose to ignore it along with everyone else. So we must assume thereof that it wasn't so important to you either.

[Dominic]

Threads have topics. This thread was originally about big game hunting, but has morphed into a discussion on fox hunting.

I have never understood why fox hunting is such a big issue in the UK, considering how little impact it's presence or absence has on the majority of people's lives. However, people clearly do like talking about it.

There are other threads, about all sorts of topics. And people can start up still more threads about new tragedies. There was a suicide bomb at an Ice Cream Shop in Iraq the other week, for instance. More people were killed there that in Manchester.

So why don't people post threads about that?

Simply, I think it is because of empathy. People have more empathy with the Manchester bombing, simply because it could have happened to a relative of theirs. They have less empathy with a bombing in Iraq or Afghanistan, because it is harder for them to relate to it.

I don't think it means that people don't care about what happens in Iraq and Afghanistan. Some may well not, but anybody possessing a basic degree of humanity will care, and be appalled. But they won't have a lot to say, because they don't have the empathy.

One thing we should remember though, is that the immigrants living in the UK will have the empathy that we lack, and will be equally appalled by the attacks in Iraq as they are in Manchester.

Perhaps we need to show them a bit of empathy?

[Firefly]

Dominic

Good post. You are correct that people in the UK empathise with their own, human nature surely. It isn't that we don't care what goes on in other parts of the world, but our own come first. I would be more inclined to empathise with immigrants living here, if they were rooting out the terrorists in their midst, but as yet they're not.

The point about big game hunting evolved into little game hunting, but that's the nature of debate. Those of us who condemn fox hunting also condemn big game hunting, it's the bloody death of an innocent animal for the pleasure of so called humans. As you say posts often go off topic, this thread has now developed into the bombings of humans, odd isn't it !

Jackie

[markwoods39]

Can i please ask why people " some people " its ok for animal to be chased and killed ? what is going through their mind at the point of kill ? Don't you think what this poor animal is going through to be chased or dug up just to be ripped apart from the hounds ? Now if it was you pet cat or dog you would be up in arms about this. Just saying By the way the Fox will not die from just a nip from the back of the neck ? as someone suggested ? It is a nasty sport that needs to be stopped END OFF we don't need this back in the UK

[Jimgward]

I dont support any hunting or unnecessary killing of animals - or humans!

However, I always remember an old documentary where activists from the UK went to Spain to protest bull fighting. The English woman said "If this was England, the RSPCA would want to prosecute you all" A Spaniard said, "while I understand your concerns, please bear in mind, that in Spain, while we have no RSPCA, we also have no RSPCC..." - we have a fraction of the child abuse of every kind and we treat children as precious, having them with us at every family meal......

[Firefly]

Mark

Totally agree with you, statistics don't prove anything, but everyone makes their own tale good. I cannot imagine what sort of mind gains pleasure from witnessing the bloody agonising death of an innocent animal. They obviously are too ashamed to explain to us animal lovers, just how they get a thrill from it, as not one person will.

As far as Halal meat is concerned, it's up to us to pressure the supermarkets into labelling their meat as such.

Jackie

[Dominic]

I would have thought concern for how the animal lived it's life would trump concern for how it was killed.

To put it another way, an intensively farmed cow will suffer a lot more in it's life than a non-intensively-farmed cow that was killed for Halal meat. Yet free range meat isn't exactly a best seller in the supermarkets.

[Firefly]

I think people are slowly moving toward free range, there is a lot more for sale in the supermarkets now, plus publicity over how animals are kept before slaughter has woken people up to exactly where there food comes from. Still Halal meat is slaughtered by an inhumane method.

Jackie

[Firefly]

LLoyd

What and be arrested for racism ? I doubt it. I didn't think I detailed it, but here goes, as far as I know, the animal has it's throat cut, and left to bleed to death, it seems sheep that are suspended upside down, larger animals are left standing.

Jackie

[markwoods39]

I refuse to eat Halal meat now but thats another topic.

You would probably be surprised to discover that just about all major UK supermarkets sell Halal meat without it being labelled as such, particularly New Zealand lamb which all seems to be Halal but without it saying so on the label. Just Google - plenty to read.

To be honest i only eat Chicken these days and i buy from our local free range farm, ok a bit more expensive but the taste is so much better and fresher worth the extra pennies in my view. If anyone can find a local free range farm in the area go a try you will be surprised by the quality of the meat compared to the supermarkets.

[markwoods39]

Still Halal meat is slaughtered by an inhumane method. Jackie

Given that foxes are no longer hunted by horses and hounds, I wonder whether the anti fox-hunting brigade will now direct their protests, vigils and stand-offs to the slaughter houses where this 'inhumane method' is carried out? And protest vociferously to the adherents of the religions which demand this method of killing?

I doubt it somehow

I already do ! thought you knew from a few years back on another site

[Poppy]

Dominic I don't quite know what you mean by an intensively farmed cow! I come from a farming background and most cows I believe are treated in the same way. In England they are kept in sheds through the winter due to the climate which is not ideal but there is no other way. Believe me the farmers do not want to keep them tied up in sheds - more expensive to feed and more muck to clean. From Spring to Autumn the cows are kept loose in fields with the rest of their herd and only come indoors twice a day for mllking - not too bad an existance. Farming can be cruel and I used to hate it when newly born calves were taken from their mothers but that is the way. Now if you talk about intensively farmed birds then that is a different matter altogether and I deplore it.

[Firefly]

LLoyd

I see you have edited your post, removing the reference you made to me.

Jackie