2017 may be the year that many of us have yearned to see; the beginning of the end of the EU.
I know that, for some, fear of Brexit and the forthcoming negotiations are weighing heavy on their minds but if you look across Europe it is a needless fear and worry. The rise of the Populist Parties,( I refuse to call them “far-right” as that is a liberal-leftie phrase that like “racist, nationalist and xenophobe” is used so much it demeans the origins) across Europe is a sign of the growing unrest felt towards the EU.
In Italy you have the 5 Star Movement promising to make breakthroughs and their leader, Beppe Grillo, has promised a referendum on Italy’s continued membership.
In March we will see Holland hold their elections and the Freedom Party, led by Geert Wilders, are set to make huge gains, although due to their electoral system I doubt Wilders will see himself as the Prime Minister but, nevertheless, they will be able to exert more political pressure on what will be a ruling coalition.
France; Hollande has said he will not seek re-election, which is a shame because, like Jeremy Corbyn, he is a complete vote loser. Instead I see a run-off between Marine Le Pen and Fillon. It will depend on how much Le Pen has been able to detoxify the National Front in the eyes of the French public but it will be close.
September(ish) sees the German elections and Merkel is toast, I believe pressure will be put on her not to seek another term but even so the German political elite will close ranks on the AfD to keep them out of a power share.
The EU itself has it’s own problems and if they continue Junker will be ousted
Remember, all of the above is taking place during our negotiations so the EU are not going to want to appear dictators for fear of upsetting the apple-carts of their puppets in the above countries. Britain is already lining-up our new Trade Agreements and the EU is aware of that, it is just a question of how much the EU wants to cut-off it’s nose to spite it’s face.
The lights are going out all over Europe
Re: The lights are going out all over Europe
One thing I don't get is your thread title. Europe will still be around with or without the EU. Or do you know something I don't?
Web Designer / Developer. Currently working on Paphos Life.
Living in Polemi, Cyprus with my wife and daughter.
Living in Polemi, Cyprus with my wife and daughter.
Re: The lights are going out all over Europe
I agree with you Happy In Cyprus. There are no significant signs that the EU will fail. However, there are some who want it to and will talk it down whenever possible. I don't know why they do this, I can only assume is it down to their personal politics.
-
johnoddy
Re: The lights are going out all over Europe
Dominic,
I love Europe but hate the EU, once the EU collapses, which it surely will, then Europe will flourish once again.
HiC,
I enjoy your typical Europhile response, your protectionism is to be applauded, if somewhat predictable.
Living, here in Cyprus, we are somewhat cocooned from the plight suffered by other European citizens, uncontrolled immigration, mass unemployment and terrorist attacks, the latter openly laid at the door of Merkel’s open door policy.
If you read the OP I did not state that either Wilders or Le Pen will “get-in” in fact, in Wilders case, I said he wouldn’t be Prime Minister and I said it would be close in the French elections if Le Pen has done enough to detoxify the National Front but, I predict Fillon will win by a small margin, on that I hope I am wrong. My point of the whole post is that the people of Europe have had enough of EU dictatorship and are showing their anger via the ballot box, rather that than the violence we are starting to see creep in across Europe.
The Trade agreements are not and cannot be ratified as you well know but that does not stop the UK from lining them up, even Donald Trump indicated the UK would not be at the back of any queue more, in fact, towards the front of it.
Like I replied to Dominic I live in Europe it is just unfortunate that, for the moment, it is suppressed by a dictatorship that I, like many, wish to see the downfall of.
Joseph k,
I apologise but I strongly disagree with you; the signs are as clear as the nose on your face, you only have to take your head out of the sand and look at them.
I love Europe but hate the EU, once the EU collapses, which it surely will, then Europe will flourish once again.
HiC,
I enjoy your typical Europhile response, your protectionism is to be applauded, if somewhat predictable.
Living, here in Cyprus, we are somewhat cocooned from the plight suffered by other European citizens, uncontrolled immigration, mass unemployment and terrorist attacks, the latter openly laid at the door of Merkel’s open door policy.
If you read the OP I did not state that either Wilders or Le Pen will “get-in” in fact, in Wilders case, I said he wouldn’t be Prime Minister and I said it would be close in the French elections if Le Pen has done enough to detoxify the National Front but, I predict Fillon will win by a small margin, on that I hope I am wrong. My point of the whole post is that the people of Europe have had enough of EU dictatorship and are showing their anger via the ballot box, rather that than the violence we are starting to see creep in across Europe.
The Trade agreements are not and cannot be ratified as you well know but that does not stop the UK from lining them up, even Donald Trump indicated the UK would not be at the back of any queue more, in fact, towards the front of it.
Like I replied to Dominic I live in Europe it is just unfortunate that, for the moment, it is suppressed by a dictatorship that I, like many, wish to see the downfall of.
Joseph k,
I apologise but I strongly disagree with you; the signs are as clear as the nose on your face, you only have to take your head out of the sand and look at them.
-
PhotoLady
- Posts: 2733
- Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2016 10:53 am
- Location: Where the river meets the sea
- Contact:
-
johnoddy
Re: The lights are going out all over Europe
An ex-Ken Clarke aide and staunch Europhile who was accused by Downing Street of upsetting the pre-referendum negotiations. No real loss and I'm pleased to see him go.
Re: The lights are going out all over Europe
John, I find it really odd that you state that you "hate" the EU.
I dont think that I actually hate anything so could you help me out by putting your hatred of the EU into perspective by telling me what other things you "hate" so that I can get a clearer idea in my mind as to what causes your hatred.
-
johnoddy
Re: The lights are going out all over Europe
Kevin,
I do not think I’ve actually used the word “hate” but I may be wrong and it may have sneaked in somewhere along the line.
There are, obviously, dozens of reasons to “hate” the EU and it would take forever to list them but my main dislike is how the EU is run like a dictatorship, it’s intrusiveness and bureaucracy and lack of democracy and unaccountability, if the EU were a business they would be forced to close down.
What I really hate is warm Keo.
I do not think I’ve actually used the word “hate” but I may be wrong and it may have sneaked in somewhere along the line.
There are, obviously, dozens of reasons to “hate” the EU and it would take forever to list them but my main dislike is how the EU is run like a dictatorship, it’s intrusiveness and bureaucracy and lack of democracy and unaccountability, if the EU were a business they would be forced to close down.
What I really hate is warm Keo.
Re: The lights are going out all over Europe
Yes John, I really do believe you said that you hate the EU ...johnoddy wrote: ↑Tue Jan 03, 2017 6:40 pm Dominic,
I love Europe but hate the EU, once the EU collapses, which it surely will, then Europe will flourish once again.
HiC,
I enjoy your typical Europhile response, your protectionism is to be applauded, if somewhat predictable.
Living, here in Cyprus, we are somewhat cocooned from the plight suffered by other European citizens, uncontrolled immigration, mass unemployment and terrorist attacks, the latter openly laid at the door of Merkel’s open door policy.
If you read the OP I did not state that either Wilders or Le Pen will “get-in” in fact, in Wilders case, I said he wouldn’t be Prime Minister and I said it would be close in the French elections if Le Pen has done enough to detoxify the National Front but, I predict Fillon will win by a small margin, on that I hope I am wrong. My point of the whole post is that the people of Europe have had enough of EU dictatorship and are showing their anger via the ballot box, rather that than the violence we are starting to see creep in across Europe.
The Trade agreements are not and cannot be ratified as you well know but that does not stop the UK from lining them up, even Donald Trump indicated the UK would not be at the back of any queue more, in fact, towards the front of it.
Like I replied to Dominic I live in Europe it is just unfortunate that, for the moment, it is suppressed by a dictatorship that I, like many, wish to see the downfall of.
Joseph k,
I apologise but I strongly disagree with you; the signs are as clear as the nose on your face, you only have to take your head out of the sand and look at them.
-
Cogs123
- Posts: 188
- Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2016 10:32 pm
- Location: York Nth. Yorks. Sometimes Lower Peyia
Re: The lights are going out all over Europe
You are indeed correct HiC, in his resignation letter he urged his colleagues to challenge ' muddled thinking & ill handed arguments ', as the senior negotiator & with merely months to go before the triggering of Artical 50, I found it disturbing that even he was unaware of the Governments plans for Brexit..... 
Life is not about waiting for the Storm to pass...
It is about learning to Dance in the Rain
It is about learning to Dance in the Rain
-
cyprusgrump
- Posts: 819
- Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2016 8:08 am
- Location: Pissouri
- Contact:
Re: The lights are going out all over Europe
HAT-TRICK OF ECONOMIC GOOD NEWS TO KICK OFF 2017
As Remainers psychoanalyse every line of Ivan Rogers’ 1,400 word resignation letter, three pieces of good news have slipped under the radar.
British manufacturing output and new orders hit their highest for the last two-and-a-half years yesterday. The manufacturing purchasing managers’ index rose to 56.1 in December, up from 53.6. Anything above 50 means British manufacturing is expanding.
The UK has also secured £16.3 billion of new foreign investment since the Leave vote, including £12 billion from DONG, a Danish energy company, and £2.5 billion from Chinese construction firm CNBM to build 25,000 new homes.
And to complete the hat-trick, the FTSE 100 reached another record high on the first day of trading in the New Year: the index soared to an intra-day record of 7,205.21.
Re: The lights are going out all over Europe
What? I have to say I am utterly stunned and incredulous that none, not one of the Remainers have mentioned this. I wonder why?! Good to see things going ok for Britain.cyprusgrump wrote: ↑Wed Jan 04, 2017 12:39 pm HAT-TRICK OF ECONOMIC GOOD NEWS TO KICK OFF 2017
As Remainers psychoanalyse every line of Ivan Rogers’ 1,400 word resignation letter, three pieces of good news have slipped under the radar.
British manufacturing output and new orders hit their highest for the last two-and-a-half years yesterday. The manufacturing purchasing managers’ index rose to 56.1 in December, up from 53.6. Anything above 50 means British manufacturing is expanding.
The UK has also secured £16.3 billion of new foreign investment since the Leave vote, including £12 billion from DONG, a Danish energy company, and £2.5 billion from Chinese construction firm CNBM to build 25,000 new homes.
And to complete the hat-trick, the FTSE 100 reached another record high on the first day of trading in the New Year: the index soared to an intra-day record of 7,205.21.
-
johnoddy
Re: The lights are going out all over Europe
The answer is simple; if it isn't bad news the Remoaners do not want to know.
-
cyprusgrump
- Posts: 819
- Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2016 8:08 am
- Location: Pissouri
- Contact:
Re: The lights are going out all over Europe
Isn't Ivan Rogers obliged to say good things about the EU or he loses his generous EU pension...?
See also: Nick Clegg.
See also: Nick Clegg.
-
PhotoLady
- Posts: 2733
- Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2016 10:53 am
- Location: Where the river meets the sea
- Contact:
Re: The lights are going out all over Europe
Has it been reported anywhere else in the news Jimgym?
The link you gave isn't a site that is familiar to me....
The link you gave isn't a site that is familiar to me....
"Have Camera, Will Travel"
Re: The lights are going out all over Europe
I didn't supply any link PhotoLady. I only replied to another poster.
I did do a search and found this. https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... pmi-survey
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/12 ... ent-since/
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/busin ... 06766.html
Last edited by Jimgym on Wed Jan 04, 2017 4:22 pm, edited 3 times in total.
-
PhotoLady
- Posts: 2733
- Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2016 10:53 am
- Location: Where the river meets the sea
- Contact:
Re: The lights are going out all over Europe
Ah sorry, yes - so you did....
It was cyprusgrump who posted the original link from what looks like some kind of a comic strip news article
It was cyprusgrump who posted the original link from what looks like some kind of a comic strip news article
"Have Camera, Will Travel"
Re: The lights are going out all over Europe
Haha, I did wonder what on earth I was looking at! Figured it was some Brexiteers idea of a joke, but with the help if Google it appears to be genuine news stories. We shall see!
-
cyprusgrump
- Posts: 819
- Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2016 8:08 am
- Location: Pissouri
- Contact:
Re: The lights are going out all over Europe
He is a political blogger and widely read by MPs...
He often breaks stories weeks before the MSM picks them up.
Re: The lights are going out all over Europe
This will obviously come as a bit of a shock to Europhiles but the fact of the matter is quite simply this- the ordinary people of the UK and Europe have worked out that the EU isn’t all it’s cracked up to be .
Yes the plebs, the great unwashed, the uneducated and those considered too stupid to know what was best for them on both sides of the Channel have managed to see through the spin and worked out the actual substance. They managed to achieve that simply using their own eyes and the common sense they were born with, and even without the recent input of the likes of Joseph Stiglitz and Otmar Issing.
In doing so they will have realised that;
A- freedom of movement is as much a curse as it is a bonus
B- Schengen is a terrorist's dream, unworkable with an all welcoming asylum policy
C- the Euro ranks as the most catastrophic economic project in history
D- the advantages of the single market are becoming less and less as regulation and homologation eliminates the competition that produces greater efficiencies that produce real economic growth.
All this means debts are going up, living standards are falling,quality of life is diminishing and the growth levels aren’t sufficient to finance the debt levels. Perfect storm a brewing methinks ?
Not all the problems with the internal workings of the nation states are the EU’s fault of course, but the blame for many of problems plaguing Europe as a whole lie squarely with Brussels.
However the EU and their acolytes simply dismiss the natural democratic reaction to this unacceptable state of affairs and unwanted integration as “populism” and continue to spout all sorts of pseudo democratic nonsense and conspiracy theories to try and convince themselves what has happened doesn’t really reflect the wishes of the people they allegedly “represent”
Well I’m sorry boys and girls but it goes a lot deeper than that and Brexit is a symptom of all that, not just a protest knee jerk reaction people are allegedly having “regrets” about. That’s the sort of contemptuous and supercilious “you know nothing, we know best” analysis from the “know nothing know it alls” that has allowed the problems to reach such critical levels
There isn’t one thing on that above list that the EU was not warned about before it started implementing them on some sort of idealistic “it’ll be alright on the night” wing and a prayer basis. Those chickens are now coming home to roost and have the capacity to undo the good work the European project did actually achieve.
If those running EU genuinely believe they can survive, let alone continue on the same course,without a significantly higher approval rating than they currently posses then they are going to be in for one heck of a shock. Trying to use expulsion from the single market as a tool to bully members into staying in the club and further complying with these unworkable and socially/economically destructive policies is a strategy ultimately doomed to failure- and rightly so.
Yes the plebs, the great unwashed, the uneducated and those considered too stupid to know what was best for them on both sides of the Channel have managed to see through the spin and worked out the actual substance. They managed to achieve that simply using their own eyes and the common sense they were born with, and even without the recent input of the likes of Joseph Stiglitz and Otmar Issing.
In doing so they will have realised that;
A- freedom of movement is as much a curse as it is a bonus
B- Schengen is a terrorist's dream, unworkable with an all welcoming asylum policy
C- the Euro ranks as the most catastrophic economic project in history
D- the advantages of the single market are becoming less and less as regulation and homologation eliminates the competition that produces greater efficiencies that produce real economic growth.
All this means debts are going up, living standards are falling,quality of life is diminishing and the growth levels aren’t sufficient to finance the debt levels. Perfect storm a brewing methinks ?
Not all the problems with the internal workings of the nation states are the EU’s fault of course, but the blame for many of problems plaguing Europe as a whole lie squarely with Brussels.
However the EU and their acolytes simply dismiss the natural democratic reaction to this unacceptable state of affairs and unwanted integration as “populism” and continue to spout all sorts of pseudo democratic nonsense and conspiracy theories to try and convince themselves what has happened doesn’t really reflect the wishes of the people they allegedly “represent”
Well I’m sorry boys and girls but it goes a lot deeper than that and Brexit is a symptom of all that, not just a protest knee jerk reaction people are allegedly having “regrets” about. That’s the sort of contemptuous and supercilious “you know nothing, we know best” analysis from the “know nothing know it alls” that has allowed the problems to reach such critical levels
There isn’t one thing on that above list that the EU was not warned about before it started implementing them on some sort of idealistic “it’ll be alright on the night” wing and a prayer basis. Those chickens are now coming home to roost and have the capacity to undo the good work the European project did actually achieve.
If those running EU genuinely believe they can survive, let alone continue on the same course,without a significantly higher approval rating than they currently posses then they are going to be in for one heck of a shock. Trying to use expulsion from the single market as a tool to bully members into staying in the club and further complying with these unworkable and socially/economically destructive policies is a strategy ultimately doomed to failure- and rightly so.
