Terrible tower block fire in London

[Varky]

Of course there is a lack of information as firefighters have only just managed to get to the top of the building and now starts the horrendous task of recovering and identifying the bodies. I think from all accounts that the surviving residents are being helped. They have been told that it is not possible at this time to re-house all of them in the same area but rehome them they will. Do you not think that those former residemts might just be too busy trying to get rehomed and some possessions togethef to protest at this time and that the main violent protesters are not the former residents?

In this we agree. From what I saw, the violent protesters were from outside of the area pushing a political agenda. The locals tried to calm things down by shouting 'peace'.

You dont know that...your just guessing, what is a fact, May has been shown to be incompetent, as a leader and is being advised by a bunch of Idiots....the sad thing for the UK is the only alternative is Jeremy...God help us.

Yes, I wasn't there as many of us who post in this forum weren't there. I only go by what was actually part of a report by the BBC and/or Sky. By the same argument you don't know that I am not right. TM's competence is another matter.

[Dominic]

If you are holding up a brochure as evidence of malpractice, you should make it a brochure that the contractors would have actually seen.

I can't for one moment believe that chief architects rely on 'brochures', in the way the rest of us do to buy household appliances. The very least they would ask a supplier for would be a full technical specification; and almost certainly certificates of compliance with fire and other relevant health and safety regulations.

At the end of the day it is the responsibility of those in charge of the renovation to ensure that the materials used were fit for purpose, rather than just being the cheapest option available, as has been claimed was the case here, and elsewhere.

So in that case the fact that the 2016 brochure says that is irrelevent then.

[Poppy]

Jimgward may I ask if it is really fact that every apartment block over 4 storeys in Scotland is fitted with a sprinkler system? There must be lots of high apartment blocks in Scotland,especially Glasgow and you can confirm that every one has this safety feature installed? It just seems strange that Scottish H&S differs so much from English?

[Jimgward]

Scotland
From 1 May 2005 all new residential care homes, sheltered housing and high rise domestic accommodation above 18 metres high have had to be fitted with sprinklers. In addition, sprinklers are required in all covered shopping centres. Reference should be made to: http://www.sbsa.gov.uk/new/tbooks.htm for copies of the relevant guidance documents. New schools in Scotland should also be fitted with a sprinkler system. It is likely that these requirements will be extended to other occupancies in 2015-6. Warehouses in excess of 14000m square metres should be fitted with sprinklers and in some cases, where hazardous materials are stored, small warehouses may also have to be fitted with sprinklers.

Fife council fit sprinkler systems in all public funded buildings, including social housing.

Older residential properties, not refurbished since change in laws, may well not have them fitted.

[Jimgward]

England

Approved documents accompanying the Building Regulations in England and Wales make specific reference to the use of sprinklers (Regulations for Scotland and Northern Ireland differ slightly).

For life safety, new residential blocks over 30m high must be fitted with sprinklers to meet Approved Document B standards. Similarly an uncompartmented area in a shop or self storage building over 2000 square metres now requires sprinkler protection. There are corresponding regulations applying to large single storey buildings for industrial or storage use where the largest permitted unsprinklered compartment is 20,000 square metres.

So, a difference of 16m in SCOTLAND and 30m in England.

[Rita Sherry]

Jimgward

The Prime Minister did not set up a Public Inquiry in order to avoid an Inquest over which she would have no control - it is not within the remit of the Prime Minister, any Prime Minister, to order Inquests. that function is the province of the Coroner of the area concerned. How on earth can any Coroner call an Inquest when so many unfortunate souls are still missing, possibly presumed dead, and thus unable to be identified? There will be an Inquest and it is for the Coroner to determine when. He/She may well wait until after the Public Inquiry as obviously there will be an overlapping of certain evidence but the function of the Coroner is to establish "cause of death" together with any rider he/she may wish to add as to causation. A Public Inquiry is not a "get out of jail card" however much you or others may wish to speculate.

There is much speculation on this site, as doubtless others, into the cause of this dreadful fire. The Inquiry, although I have no knowledge and neither has anyone else at present, will doubtless be tasked with establishing causation, how many other premises are likely to be suspect and what must be done to ensure something like this does not happen again.

Meantime it is for the Fire Services and the Police to carry on with their grim task and hopefully without the interference of people, some of whom have a different agenda. Likewise it is for all of us, I suggest, to give those hard working people our full support and the time to thoroughly do the job to which they are assigned. Leave the politics out of it that can be left to another day and another place I suggest

Much much credit is due to the band of volunteers, just around the corner from the jeering protesters, who regardless have carried on feeding, clothing and finding accommodation for those who have lost everything. Might it not be more productive if the others actually joined them however much their grievances are?

Do you realise the density of the area? There are not just one or two tower blocks there are many more both in close proximity in that area and every other borough of London thus making it virtually impossible to rehouse such a large number immediately in the same area. The thinking when they were built was not enough room to go out so go up thus the landscape of London and its near surrounding areas changed completely.

Road Warrior has a good knowledge of the Fire Service and I am sure he will agree that the task faced/facing the Fire Service in this instance is a momentous one.

Many people have perished as you are aware and it is the task of those now still working on the building to endeavour to find all those poor souls not accounted for. Do you seriously think they were able to do this within the 48 hours immediately after the fire started when it was still burning and unsure the building was safe? To their eternal credit they entered it whilst people were fleeing.

As for the delay in the Queen visiting it is common procedure for the Queen or any other member of the Royal Family, likewise the Prime Minister not to make visits in order that the task befalling those tasked with dealing with the situation are not hindered by taking time out to facilitate such visits. They are advised by those close on the ground (no pun there) when it is considered appropriate to make a visit. I would imagine the Prime Minister made her "private visit" to the Fire & Police Service personnel in order to gain information from them (the experts) what could immediately be done and what was needed.

Returning to the protesters are you and others on this site aware that whilst this was going on and the police were being attacked a man was arrested in possession of a knife outside the Houses of Parliament almost exactly at the same spot where the policeman was killed in March of this year?. I sincerely trust this situation is not going to develop into a full blown riot across London encouraged by those with their own Agenda.

To those victims of this dreadful tragedy I send my deepest sympathy and my thoughts and prayers are with you all. God Bless

Rita

[Jimgward]

Ayrshire and Glasgow

Glasgow skylineImage copyrightGETTY IMAGES
Image caption
Glasgow Housing Association says it has a "robust" fire prevention system in place
Residents of high rise flats in parts of Scotland have been offered reassurance in the wake of the Grenfell Tower tragedy.
Glasgow Housing Association (GHA) said it had a "robust" system in place to minimise the risk of fire and prevent it spreading.
South Ayrshire Council has ordered a review of three tower blocks in Ayr.
Police have confirmed that at least 30 people died in the devastating blaze in west London on Wednesday morning.
The BBC understands that as many as 76 people are missing.
Live: Fears for fire missing grow
Royal visit to Grenfell Tower victims
May visits Grenfell survivors in hospital
London fire: What we know so far
In a statement, GHA said it has set up a helpline for worried residents following the fire.
The social landlord took over the running of about 40,000 homes in Glasgow from Glasgow City Council in 2003.
It said "materials and systems" used as part of an investment in programme in multi-storey buildings were designed to prevent the spread of fire and they "meet and in many cases exceed" Scottish building standards.
Westercommon Tower blocks in GlasgowImage copyrightWILLIAM STARKEY
High rise living: 'I feel blessed to live here'
Jane Hanka has lived on the 19th floor of a tower block in Glasgow for the last three years.
She told BBC Radio Scotland's John Beattie programme that the images from the London fire were her "worst nightmare".
But she insisted that she loved living in a high rise alongside "great neighbours" and some "very friendly people".
"I feel blessed to live here," she said. "I absolutely love living high rise. I can't imagine living in a house again.
"The views are fantastic, the concierge service is really good."
She said she has had to reconsider advice on what to do in a fire.
"Since Grenfell Tower, I've had to rethink this... advice that you stay in your flat.
"Before I'd always thought that's what you do, that's the advice. Who knows in the moment how you're going to react, what your gut instinct is going to tell you to do - to stay in the flat or try and escape."
The association did not use the same insulating material as that which was reported to be used in Grenfell Tower, it added.
GHA staff carry out daily patrols in its tower blocks, where they identify health and safety problems, including fire risks, and the Scottish Fire and Rescue Service also carries out quarterly inspections, it said.
A spokesman said: "We are continuing to reassure residents that we have a robust approach in place to minimise the risk of fire, and prevent it spreading. We have set up a helpline for any concerned tenants who need extra reassurance.
"We will listen very carefully to any additional safety recommendations or advice from the authorities as a result of the London fire and are standing ready to take any necessary actions around any lessons to be learned."
Riverside Place in AyrImage copyrightGOOGLE
Image caption
Sprinkler systems are in place in flats in three tower blocks in Riverside Place in Ayr
Meanwhile South Ayrshire Council said a review of its three 13-storey tower blocks in Riverside Place, Ayr, will begin on Monday and it will be carried out by a specialist architect.
It confirmed that every flat and communal area was fitted with a sprinkler system, and fire alarms were in place.
The council added that the buildings were fitted with "mineral core" external cladding in 1992 - a different product from that used on Grenfell Tower.
Councillor Philip Saxton said: "While all three [tower blocks] meet strict fire protection standards, the cladding was fitted 25 years ago and we need to ensure that the buildings continue to provide the level of safety our tenants would expect.
"We're working closely with residents and tenants to keep them fully informed about the building inspections, which will be carried out in the next few days."

[Jimgward]

From the BBC

A sprinkler system is one of the most effective tools available to prevent the spread of fire in tall buildings. Grenfell Tower and thousands of others in the UK do not have sprinklers installed. Reality Check explores the reasons.
Regulations in England mean that only buildings constructed since 2007 and which are taller than 30m are required to have sprinklers fitted. This requirement wasn't applied retroactively so did not apply to Grenfell Tower, which was built in 1974.
Existing high-rises in England must have them fitted if a fundamental change is made to the structure or use of the building.
These regulations are the same in Northern Ireland. In Scotland all new residential buildings taller than 18m must be fitted with sprinklers. In Wales since last year, all new and refurbished residential accommodation must have sprinklers. Nowhere in the UK is it a requirement to retroactively fit sprinklers in existing buildings.

[Poppy]

Thankyou Jimgward for that inf so there is some difference in regs but maybe not significant. Although it mentions refurbishment it does not state that it must be fitted at refurbishment which seems unfortunate?
Rita What can I say? Another excellent and informative post from you and I sincerely hope forum members will take note. Thank you!

[PaphosAL]

Sprinkler systems are very expensive to install, requiring an army of qualified plumbers, and miles of 38mm cast iron pipe and unions. Apart from a mains water-fed generator and fire alarm C+E to kick it into activation...

They don't use these babies on domestic residential tower blocks, sadly. But a high rise Office block? Now you're talking a different language... Fire Regs have been 'relaxed' by HMG and local Councils over the last decade, much to the chagrin of the local Fire Brigade inspectors!!

BEFORE: Loft voids in Supermarkets had to be 'compartmentalised' with sealed hanging fire-proof curtains 10m apart. But this was expensive! So Tesco and Asda rewrote the rules...

You could call this Commercialism wins over H&S. But when you have two plumbers up in the OPEN loft (fixing a leak with a blow torch, with normal shoppers below them) and things go tits up, THIS is what now happens:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-be ... s-39453489

Wrecked the WHOLE store (not just one contained area from the loft above)
Still isn't open yet, after a lot longer than 12 weeks forecast..
I bet Walmart's insurers are giving them the bums rush on this claim- fair play!

Safety advice: If you are in a supermarket anywhere in the world, and notice anything strange going on, like smoke seeping out from the ceiling tiles, just leave your shopping trolly or basket where it is, and get out of the building into the car park. Don't wait for the Fire Alarm to sound, as it's more than likely 'silenced' while the maintenance nerds are trying to learn how the system works. You honestly couldn't make this up if you tried. But it's true, trust me..

AL

[memory man]

Powerful and emotional story from a firefighter who attended Grenfell Tower....

I'm not sure if this is something that I should vocalise or whether or not it should be shared with the world but as I sit at home thinking about the other night the Grenfell Tower I feel like people might want to know how the incident went from the point of view of a firefighter who was sent inside, while the tower burned all around us and how after years of cuts to the service I work for, how I feel about what we do and how the past few years have been for us.

I've always been very proud of the job my colleagues and I do week in week out as part of the fire service. At times its hard, at others not so much but the uncertainty of what might happen is always there.
We are a funny bunch, we like to laugh to play jokes on each other, sometimes we are silent and won't tell you what we are thinking about.
We laugh off the good natured banter directed at us from outside the service and mostly manage to do the same with the insults we get as a public service, even when it's not always easy to do so.

It is especially hard to think about those insults during times like this. When I think about all the occasions I've heard and seen on the news or social media where people are calling us lazy or greedy because we dared to show anger at the 1% pay rise we've had imposed year after year. While MPs sit in Westminster drinking and eating in a subsidised bars and restaurants while they make £100+ a hour all on the tax payers money, getting a 11% pay rise and increased pensions to go with it.
When people think we have some sort of golden plated, over generous pensions. Ignorant to the fact that we pay in over 12% of our wages into it every month. That's £300/£400 a month, every month! That we are worse off now than we were 7 years ago.
And we weren't well off then by any means.
Ah Yes some of you say.. but you've all got second jobs.
Well Yes! Some people do work second jobs on their rest days, but this isn't good is it!
It can't be...
Who wants to work a second job on days you should be resting and recovering or spending with loved ones.
They only do it so they can provide for their family's.
And you know what! We will have to continue to do this extremely dangerous job until we are 60 years old! That is of course as long as they don't sack us because the physical strains of the work took their tolls on our body's and we can't physically go on meeting the fitness standards any longer. Or maybe they will decide to move our pension age again, robbing hard working men an women of tens of thousands of pounds they had planned for their retirement.

Can you imagine seeing all those images from that awful night but pictured in them instead of containing lots of young fit firefighters able to recover quickly, ready to go again and again to save you, it's full of 50-60 year old grey haired firefighters pushing their worn and broken body's that have suffered through 40 years of service through the strains of the job to breaking point.
If you can you can imagine it that night might of been very very different.

I can't help but think "if only those people really knew!" if only those people who make those decisions, those people who think we are money wasted because there are the days we have no shouts to attend. The days we might just be at the station or when we are going out to put up smoke alarms for people or familiarise ourselves with the local risks or talk to kids at local schools.

If only those people could experienced the things we've seen and done on the days that aren't that easy. So they can see first hand what we do to deal with these horrific incidents.
Not just turn up after it's all done to have their photos taken with us giving out hollow praise so they look good in the news as they continue to cut our funding and working conditions.

So with all that in my mind and hopefully now in yours I though I'd write my personal experience of what I faced at Grenfell Tower.

Somethings I will miss out as they don't need to be said, some I can't say, other things I will simplify so hopefully everyone can understand them, I'm not looking for praise I just want to let you know we did all we could.
------------

As always we were woken with a start, the lights came on and the automated tannoy voice started shouting our call signs. It never fails to set your heat racing. Getting dressed I looked at the clock, I'd only lay down less than a hour ago. Time to see what we've got this time..
Down the pole to the trucks and it's here I'm handed the call slip make pumps 25... what! No..
That's a big incident.
Wait.... I don't know where this is.. it's not on our ground.
We have to look it up and then we're out the doors.

We arrived about 0120hrs but due to the way cars are parked in the streets and the fire engines that are arriving with us we couldn't get closer than 4-5 streets away from the building. Other trucks were closer they would be setting up water ready for us.

We could see this was a bad one immediately. The sky was glowing. Leaving our truck we started quickly towards it. Picking up pace we are carrying our BA sets on our back, while making our way we are trying to read the conditions in front of us, trying to take in as much information as we could. How big is the tower, where is the fire, where is the fire going next, how's it behaving, how many flats are internally affected, how many people are in there?

We mustered outside the entrance. Parts of the building we already starting to fall down on to the surrounding area.
As we entered the building the fire on the outside was raging from the top to the bottom.
Walking up to the bridgehead on the 3rd floor we were told to look at a floor plan that had been hastily drawn on a wall.
We stood looking at it waiting at entry control to be given instructions my BA partner and I (a new mother herself) stood waiting with other firefighters waiting to see what information there was available. Then we received our brief... 23rd floor people stuck in their flat go!
23rd floor? I repeat back.. giving the flat number I received to the Watch manager.
She confirms. I turned at told my BA as the reality of how high we are going to try and go on a single cylinder of air.

Weighed down carrying 30kg+ of equipment not including our firekit and breathing apparatus (BA) we passed through entry control handing in our tallies and confirming our brief.
We made our way up a crowed stairwell struggling to make progress, at times unable to pass because of the amount of people on the stairs. The stairwells were full of other BA crews bringing people down all in various states and conditions.

The smoke grew thicker with each floor we went up. No proper floor numbers on the stairwells after about the 5th floor made it hard to know where you were. Someone before us had tried to write them on the wall with chinagraph pencil but this didn't last long. The dirty smoke was covering the walls with a film of blackness

Around the 9th floor we lost all visibility and the heat was rising. Still we continued up and up through the blackness. We reached what we believed to be the 19/20th floor but there was no way to tell. It was here where we found a couple trying to find their way out, panicking, choking, blinded by the thick toxic air.

A quick gauge check showed us that the amount of floors we'd climbed had taken its toll, we were getting low on air. There's no way we could make it to the 23rd and back to the bridgehead.

The couple were shouting and screaming at us through the coughing, trying to tell us there were 5 more people on the floor above!

Now I had horrible decisions to make and a very short amount of time to make them.

In what I think would of been less than a minute these are all the things I had going through my head.
I will list a few of them for you.
All of which I needed to consider before making my decision:........

•Now that we've stopped and lost our rhythm on the stairs would we have enough air to leave this couple and try to reach the next floor?

•Was the information we are getting from these people was correct. After all they are frantically panicking as they choke and suffer from the heat.

•If we let them carry on down the stairs alone would they or could they find their own way out?

•If we went up another floor would we actually find the 5?

•If we found them what state would they be in? Could the two of us get that many out especially one or more are unconscious?

•How would we decided who to take?

•Do we have enough air to make it back down to safety ourselves from where we are?

•Should I be considering asking my BA partner a "new mother" to risk even more than she already has...?

•Can I accept/live with the thought that saving two lives is better than taking the risk to go up and potentially saving no one?

Ahh!! Come on think...!
Am I doing enough?
Can I give more?
Am I forgetting any of my training....?

Stop....

Breath.....

Think.....

•Why haven't we seen another crew for so long?

•Will another crew find them?

•Are we really where we think we are?

•The radios are playing up... have we missed a important message.

•Have all crews been pulled out?

•Is the structure still safe?

Come on make a decision... and make it quick these people are choking.......

Ok Ok Ok!
Dam!
Come on!! Think!!
Right... ok
Decision made!

I do a double check... ask my partner...
Is it the right decision..?
Ahhh
I'm doubting myself,
Ahhh! there's no time for this!
Come on get on with it...

Right! Make the call!

I try to radio down to entry control.

"Alpha Control Priority!"......
No response....

"Alpha Control Priority!"
Still No response....

Where are they... what's going on?!?

"Alpha Control Priority!"
.....................
.....................

Did they answer... it's hard to tell.. the signal is all broken I think I can just about hear something.

"Alpha Control Priority!"

Alpha control responds...
"Go a head with priority over"

Are they talking to me I can't hear my call sign...

Pass the message

Alpha control.. Two casualties found approx 20th floor, crew now escorting them down, request another BA team be committed to reach flat on 23rd floor. Further traffic....
5 casualties are reported apparently trying to make their way out on the floor above. Over

Alpha control "Message received"

Were they talking to me it broke up again...

Ok we really need to get out.
Let's go!
Grab my arm.

Taking a casualty each we set off. Within two floors both of us had been pushed down one of the flight of the stairs by our casualties. They are screaming at us that they couldn't breath.
We try to reassure them.
Stay with me!!
We are going to get you out!!.
Please stay with me!

Down and down we go... I hear a shout from behind me from my partner, the female casualty has become unconscious. My partner is now having to drag her down alone. I can't help at this time.

Two floors later we find another crew making their way out. One of them is carrying a little girl. I hand off my casualty to the firefighter who has a free set of hands, please take him out I shout, we'll be right behind you.
I turn to go but with that he hands me something I'd not seen initially.
Wait!
What!
Im handed a firefighters helmet!
This can't be good!!
Why does he have this?
Where is the firefighter it belongs too!

As I turn round and go back up one turn of the stairs I see him.
He's missing his helmet but he's with my BA partner.
He's got no helmet and no breathing apparatus.
Are you ok? Where's your BA set!?

He's given it to a casualty.. he's coughing as he tells us, he's delirious from the heat and smoke.

Still he tries to help carry the casualty! Helping others is still his first thought.

I shout at him.. Get down those stairs, get down to the bridgehead!
I take the casualties arms my BA partner has her legs.
We start down again.. round and round we go, hear the noise of crews working hard around us. There are still crews going up the stairs past us.

My BA pre alarm starts going this off.... this means one thing.. my air is running low.. similar noises are all around me.

Turning a corner we see a white helmet, it's a watch manager in the stairwell we've reach the bridgehead.
It's moved again. It's now up on the 5th floor.

My partner takes the firefighter with no BA in to the 5th floor lobby to administer Oxygen.
The watch manager takes the casualties legs from her.
Walking backwards down another 5 floors and finally I'm on the ground floor but I can't stop yet. I hand the casualty over. Then I'm off back up those stairs to the 5th floor.
Reaching entry control, now finally I can shut my set down and I take my mask off. Hoping for a deep breath of clean air...
ah nope!!
It's not clean air in here, I suck in lung full of light ish smoke. It makes me cough and retch.
Still It's clean enough to breath I guess. It's better than the air higher up.

With my tally collected I find my BA partner. She's with the firefighter we found and she's administering him Oxygen. We're off. We take him down and out with us.

As we get outside we are desperate for a drink of water, collapsing on the grass by the leisure centre. Someone see us and throws us some water I drink it straight down, its gone so fast it barely touches the thirst I have.
As I look up colleagues are all around us, tunics off their t-shirts soaked through with sweat, no one really able to talk.

All of us sat there looking at the building we've just come out of. It's worse now! The fire is everywhere and fierce!
It's hard to comprehend we were just in there.

We see a man in a high window trapped in his flat, we can hear the radio traffic. They know he's there but no one can get to him... but crews are working hard trying to help him.
He's there for a long time disappearing then coming back.

Slowly we catch our breath, we service our BA sets new oxygen cylinders on them we are ready to go again.

Recovering I go to find more water. At a cordon a woman pleads with me... crying and pushing her phone at me she says she has her friend on line.
Her and her baby are trapped on the 11th floor.
It throws me... I struggle to reply.. I look across at a police officer I point at him and tell her he will take her to the people who will take her friends information and pass it on to the crews inside.
Stay on the phone with her I say!
Tell her not to give up!
We are still coming.
We are still getting to people I promise.

No time to stop, don't get distracted. I've got to get a drink and get back to it.

Time passes quickly, some people are given jobs while others have to wait to be tasked with going back inside.

Some time later I couldn't say how long we are all grouped together waiting for news. A senior officer is telling us he knows we've already broken all the policy's we have. He knows the risks we've taken but thats not enough we are going to have to take more! There are still a lot more people who need us.
He says he's going ask us to do things that would normally be unimaginable. To put our lives at risk even more than we already have.
Everyone is looking round at each other listening to this officer try to motivate us into action again. He didn't need to though
we are ready for it! This is what we train for.
Those colleagues who a little while ago were collapsed and broken from on the grass from their first entry are back up, ready, stood in full kit waiting for their orders to go in again.

Now lots of things happened during the time I was outside. Some people were rescued alive, some unfortunately weren't. People jumped, a mother threw a baby from a floor high up, caught by a complete stranger arms just so she could get it away from the fire.

All this time hour after hour my colleagues were pushing themselves above and beyond what you'd think was humanly possible.

As the light broke and time passed we knew it had gone to make pumps 40, and that 20 relief trucks were ordered. So as the trucks with fresh crews arrived those of us that were there early on were starting to be swapped over. We were told to find our crews and go to the debrief but no one was wanting to leave each and every one willing to give more, but eventually we all had to leave the scene.

So 19 hours after starting our night shift the members of Red Watch made it back to the Fire Station.

Time to try and rest.. in 4 hours time we will be on duty again.

We hand over the appliance to the Blue Watch. Tell them what equipment we known to be missing.

I swapped out my dirty fire gear so I'm ready for 8pm, I might as well do it while I'm still covered in sweat and dirt.

I shower, but the smell of smoke won't go away. I wash three times and give up.

I'm beyond tired but I cant sleep.. there's to much going on in my head.

I think I need a drink!

I go out to the local pub with colleagues. I order a shandy, I'm back on duty soon.
As we sat with our drinks we don't really talk. Sitting in almost complete silence, each lost in thought trying to begin to process everything that's happened. Yet we are aware of the people all around us laughing and joking with friends, enjoying their drinks in the sun. Oblivious to what we've seen, unaware of what we've been doing all night.

I've no appetite but I know I need to eat. We go to and get some food but it's hard to concentrate.

We go back to the fire station, there's no time to get home. I find a bed in the dorm room and eventually manage 45 min sleep before I wake up. Wash my face, get dressed and I'm ready to report for roll call, ready to do it all again.

-----------

Now... this is only a small part of the things we saw and did on that night. Other stories will obviously come out but some won't. Some will be kept by firefighters and the other emergency services hidden away deep down in their thoughts, never to pass in to words, never to be told to a living soul but always there, those emotional scars will forever be there.

-----------

After all that I want to ask you this.

When you see emergency services workers plastered on papers or on the news being slated by the mainstream media, or sometimes missing from a story or a incident you know we would of been at, being called lazy because we are seen trying to eat or have a coffee whilst on duty and your initial thought is any level of outrage
"what! they can't do that! I'm paying their salary!"
"They should be doing something else!"

Stop! and Think!

Take a minute to consider what that person might of already seen or done that day or what they might see or do in 5 minutes from now.

When you see big incidents like this on the news, stop... take a moment think about the thousands of incidents that are attended every year by blue light services that don't make the mainstream media either because they don't sell papers or give the right message for the current political agenda of a particular party.
Maybe it is because they are only small or maybe because they are not considered news worthy enough.
Maybe they do make the news its because something went wrong and then it is reported so someone can be blamed. Reported on so some MP can say pubic services are in meltdown so they can sell off part or all of that public service to one of their multimillionaire friends or a private company they are on the board of, all so they can introduce privatisation and make cuts to try and make a profit out of saving lives.

Regardless of what they do, regardless of what the job is, regardless how big or small it is. We as first responders are still going to be there, we are sill going to go out day after day helping the people who's lives are at the lowest point imaginable. We are going to be there for you!

So If you see us out and about please show us you're support, show us you're thinking of us and appreciate us by giving us a smile or a wave and if at some point we ask for your support or go out on strike know it's not because want to it's because when we say things like cuts are dangerous we are doing it for the right reasons, because ultimately it's you we are looking out for, it's the people we serve that unfortunately suffer from government cuts.

Finally if you can take a few moments out of your day to really consider the sacrifices the men and women of the emergency services are willing to make to protect you, your loved ones and the local communities we serve you will see that it's not about money or fame we do it because we genuinely care about serving you.

I'm off to see my family and friends now. I might talk to them about it if I can, but then again I might not. I'm not sure they need to know what's in my head just yet.
Maybe once I've made sense of it i will.

Please take care out there people, but if you can't don't worry to much..
We will be there looking out for you, all day everyday!

[Firefly]

M.M

A powerful thought provoking article. Anyone who has a member of their family in the emergency services can relate to it.

LLoyd, please stop having a pop at all and sundry for the sake of it, it's becoming tedious.

Josefk

Like it or not, rent a mob are out there and stirring up trouble as they usually do, obviously the family and friends of those who died are distressed, but having experienced grief myself, as most of us have, I think it's too early for anger. A screaming mob breaking into council offices and assaulting police, does the genuinely bereft no favours. As for housing nearby, just which families would you evict to make way for the ones who are homeless ?

Rita

As usual a balanced well informed post.

Jackie

[June]

At the time of Flood Desmond the Army were called in to help the people of Cumbria.
And they did.

[Poppy]

I have to say I found nothing wrong with Jackies comments. Several of us tend to be irritated by Lloyds "I'm always right" attitude and tell him so on various occasions and I am pretty sure that he is not bothered one jot and can certainly stick up for himself!! With regard to how people react in grief,you are of course right and everyone reacts differently and I believe us brits tend to be more stoical than most for example when my husband was . told he had cancer which had spread to his lung he took it on the chin. The Oncologist who was greek told him at the end of what had been a harrowing day for her and when he accepted her diagnosis and prognosis she said tbank goodness you are english a cypriot would have been wailing,protesting and screaming - just shows how different races react differently however I believe that Jackie is quite right to condemn the actions of the screaming and chanting mob who broke into the council offices and shouted at the Royal family. I am pretty sure that most of these were not residents,survivors or close family members.

[memory man]

The 1984 Documentary That Predicted Grenfell Tower

[Firefly]

Lloyd

I have no wish to block you, as I am interested in some of your posts, but it just seems that you 'have a go' at everything and anything for the sake of it.

Lifesabeach

You consider my post was rude ? you come over as a rather sensitive soul. I do find Lloyd's post interesting sometimes. As Poppy rightly said, he can and does stick up for himself, I'm sure you're well meaning, but he doesn't need a champion.

Jackie

[Steve - SJD]

79 announced as dead or presumed dead as the toll increases.

RIP

Cheers

Steve

[Firefly]

I expect as the block is systematically searched, sadly more bodies will be found. Saw the dogs ready to go in with their boot on bless them.

Lloyd, yes we know you do

Jackie

[Jimgward]

I don’t believe anyone will have a conclusive figrue for mny weeks. There will be people missing who haven’t been reported missing.

All terribly sad.

[PaphosAL]

recently confirmed that a faulty Hotpoint fridge freezer caused an electrical blaze. Not a model subject to past safety recalls, but it will be now, of course...

Also the Mayor has called for an Amnesty for the (unknown number of) people suspected to be living in the building illegally. How on earth do they ID their bodies?

AL