Windrush Ooh Aah

[Jimgward]

Sadly, there are still far too many bigots and racists in the UK, many who do a decent job of hiding it on the surface, but I think it’s mainly a generational thing and dying out.
It was the Irish, then the Blacks, the the Muslims, then Poles and other Europeans... who faced the wrath of discrimination.
It is perfectly acceptable that nobody should expect the core values or culture in the UK to change, but diversity and multi-cultural society CAN offer a lot. The usual arguments of “they’re taking our jobs”, Ive always found usually come from those who dont want a job!

[Loxely Man]

So if the factory you are/were working in is a museum, don't point the finger at HMG. Ask the factory owners and senior management the right questions!!!
AL

I'm not blaming the government I blame the lack of reinvestment by the owners, my late father was a highly skilled engineer, in 1976 his factory machinery was still powered by the same principal although not steam as Arkwright's Mill at Cromford Matlock in the industrial revolution. An electric motor on the ground floor powered machinery on the floors above by a series of pulleys, his ancient Lathe was powered by an overhead belt as late as the mid 1970s
This is why commonwealth labour was brought in.

[Steve - SJD]

So if the factory you are/were working in is a museum, don't point the finger at HMG. Ask the factory owners and senior management the right questions!!!
AL

I'm not blaming the government I blame the lack of reinvestment by the owners, my late father was a highly skilled engineer, in 1976 his factory machinery was still powered by the same principal although not steam as Arkwright's Mill at Cromford Matlock in the industrial revolution. An electric motor on the ground floor powered machinery on the floors above by a series of pulleys, his ancient Lathe was powered by an overhead belt as late as the mid 1970s
This is why commonwealth labour was brought in.

I don't believe that was the main reason I believe that was simply due to a lack of manpower as they were employed in various areas not just manufacturing. Regardless though they were invited so everything else is a mute point really.

Cheers

Steve

[Steve - SJD]

Sadly, there are still far too many bigots and racists in the UK, many who do a decent job of hiding it on the surface, but I think it’s mainly a generational thing and dying out.

Jim over the years I have seen many changes and mostly for the better thankfully. However I have to say that in the last couple of years I believe
things have taken several backward steps. The whole Brexit debacle seems in some instances to have given the green light to those folks that
have been hiding racist tendencies to be more vocal.

I have been in the UK for a little while and twice in the last month I have witnessed events that I hoped were a thing of the past. Unfortunately
I was shopping with my youngest daughter on both occasions and it was not the kind of disgusting racist behaviour that I wanted her to witness.
Won't bore you with the details as am probably difting off-topic but suffice to say that it wasn't pleasant but unfortunately won't be unique.

Cheers

Steve

[WHL]

Racists often quote Enoch Powell and his speeches of doom and gloom ,... what these Idiots fail to mention is Enoch Powell, as Minister of Health (1960-63), recruited nurses from the Caribbean for the National Health Service.

[Jimgward]

Sadly, there are still far too many bigots and racists in the UK, many who do a decent job of hiding it on the surface, but I think it’s mainly a generational thing and dying out.

Jim over the years I have seen many changes and mostly for the better thankfully. However I have to say that in the last couple of years I believe
things have taken several backward steps. The whole Brexit debacle seems in some instances to have given the green light to those folks that
have been hiding racist tendencies to be more vocal.

I have been in the UK for a little while and twice in the last month I have witnessed events that I hoped were a thing of the past. Unfortunately
I was shopping with my youngest daughter on both occasions and it was not the kind of disgusting racist behaviour that I wanted her to witness.
Won't bore you with the details as am probably difting off-topic but suffice to say that it wasn't pleasant but unfortunately won't be unique.

Cheers

Steve

Very sad to hear that, Steve.... racism is a horrible and vile thing. I agree that Brexit has borought that bigots who hid it well before, to the fore, as it almost gives them an excuse. When Farage got away with a racist poster sand other vile statements, it gave vent to many as well.

I have witnessed it first hand. I got into a very heated argument on a bus in Liverpool, defending a bloke who was being racially abused. It was only stopped from vioolence as the bloke realised I wasn’t on my own. I have also witnessed it as being of Irish descent, with some factions of the orange order singing “The famines over, why dont you go home” - although not directly aimed personally at me...

Sadly, colour is the easiest way to discriminate and why some believe it makes you any less than them, I’lll never know.

[Loxely Man]

So if the factory you are/were working in is a museum, don't point the finger at HMG. Ask the factory owners and senior management the right questions!!!
AL

I'm not blaming the government I blame the lack of reinvestment by the owners, my late father was a highly skilled engineer, in 1976 his factory machinery was still powered by the same principal although not steam as Arkwright's Mill at Cromford Matlock in the industrial revolution. An electric motor on the ground floor powered machinery on the floors above by a series of pulleys, his ancient Lathe was powered by an overhead belt as late as the mid 1970s
This is why commonwealth labour was brought in.

I don't believe that was the main reason I believe that was simply due to a lack of manpower as they were employed in various areas not just manufacturing. Regardless though they were invited so everything else is a mute point really.
Cheers Steve

A massive amount of personel returned to the labour market from HMForces after WWII had ended, ships, aircraft were laid up regiments were reduced like mine to one battalion. It didn't alter the fact that our industries were unable to compete due to being labour intensive, due to this jobs were ten a penny, the cheap short term answer was to bring in cheap commonwealth labour, they weren't brought in to help rebuild Britain they were brought in as a cheap alternative to reinvestment.

[William Morris]

I am really struggling to follow this argument now. It just seems to wander off at tangents.

How is it that West Indies immigrants who came to Britain in the early 50s get blamed for lack of investment in the 70s? I canot see any logical link between the two events.

Can you please clarify, loxley, that you served in the army during WW2. When you say that"regiments like mine were reduced to one battalion " are you speaking from first hand experience?

[Dominic]

Racism is a disease and is found everywhere, and I suspect has been around since the dawn of man....but please don't try and blame Brexit for its "rise" in the UK...yes occurances are reported more, but that's because news is now a 24hr entertainment programme...Racisin, intolerance, bigrotry exists across and between all races, across all colours and all creeds...and it is certainly not the domain of the "White Man". We can all probably quote instances of overt Racism...pop along to Bradford, Rochdale, Birmingham and many other cities and walk around a predominantly or ideed these days exclusive Asian area...and you don't have to look much further than the Middle East to experience religious, ethnic and tribal predjuices....and yes Jim colour is probably the easiest day to discriminate, but it is far from the only way....

No, it's because neanderthals now think it is acceptable to say what they want about who they want. Now, that isn't the fault of Brexit, it is the fault of the neanderthal. However, they see Brexit as their validation.

But let's draw a line under Brexit for this discussion. It isn't relevent.

[Steve - SJD]

pop along to Bradford, Rochdale, Birmingham and many other cities and walk around a predominantly or ideed these days exclusive Asian area...

Hudswell - Dominic has addressed the Brexit point.

Just wanted to point out that I was in Bradford when the events that I mentioned took place - one was directed at a black lady and the other at Polish people.

BTW Bradford is a big place and despite the often repeated claims the overwhelming majority of Bradford's population are white and not Asian. Of course there are areas within Bradford that have a very high proportion of Asians - have lived in Leeds & Bradford for the majority of my life and walk around various areas without issues.

Cheers

Steve

[WHL]

Steve, it wasn't meant as indictment of any racial tension in Bradford or any other metropolitan area, but mearly an observation that pockets of racism, against all colours and creeds can exist where a majority exist. And yes being a Yorkshire lad myself I am well aware how big Bratford is...yes the overt Racism against the Windrush generation in the early days was terrible, but a different age when people were not used to change and still traumatised after WW2, and those migrants did indeed help to rebuild the country which had been decimated economically, and socially with an entire generation whose numbers had been culled by the war. The current situation that is effecting some of those migrants is appalling, but now the full extent of the misery that has been caused is being addressed by those in the best position to address it..the Government.

Thats a joke, right?

[WHL]

Who,do you suggest WHL, please enlighten us....

I wouldnt trust May and Buffoon Boris to make me an omelette ..an independent inquiry.

[WHL]

Ah, an enquiry..lasting how long? Comprising of who? Costing how much....last time I looked the Government is actually doing something....offer of compensation to those effected, citizenship without jumping through the hoops....but yep,let's wait for an independant inquiry....

Labour saying one thing Torys saying the opposite, someones telling Porkys, the people effected by this need to know the truth.

[Devil]

A massive amount of personel returned to the labour market from HMForces after WWII had ended, ships, aircraft were laid up regiments were reduced like mine to one battalion. It didn't alter the fact that our industries were unable to compete due to being labour intensive, due to this jobs were ten a penny, the cheap short term answer was to bring in cheap commonwealth labour, they weren't brought in to help rebuild Britain they were brought in as a cheap alternative to reinvestment.

Sorry, but your argument is totally wrong. It is true that industry was under-equipped but because the war effort had worn it out from over-work and years of diy repairs. You forget that the UK was totally stony-broke without two spare bronze pennies to rub together. We had severe rationing (bread rationing started after the war, in 1946, if I remember correctly). We had the effects of the blitz in major cities. The number of able men and women, especially skilled experienced personnel, to run the factories was largely insufficient due to the disabilities of many returning soldiers (those that did return!). There was a catch-22 situation; capital equipment could not be replaced because there were no materials nor personnel to make it. Even with Marshall Aid, the UK was on its knees, struggling. There was one miracle that helped Britain's recovery: in 1948, the welfare state and the NHS were kick-started on a shoe-string, thanks to Attlee's Labour Government's implementation of the Beveridge Plan. I was there, I remember it, all the years of austerity.

So, please stop writing rubbish, when you obviously know nothing of the real situation of the time!

[Varky]

The truth is that there has been a monumental cock up, by all the parties, which is now being redressed...I am sure that there will be some form of "enquiry" in order to prevent such an event happening again but at the moment it is action that is required....action which the Government is taking.

Not sure it will be redressed in the way it should be. Please read the small print of what politicians say. Yes, the documentation, including passports will be addressed but according to the government financial compensation will be given "where (financial) loss has occurred" and only in "appropriate" circumstances.
No mention of financial compensation other than where loss has actually occurred and who will be deciding whether financial compensation is APPROPRIATE. Will it be the same group of people that were originally immorally deporting those poor unfortunates.
Before fanfaring that the government is taking action, at least let's make sure it is sufficient and correct action.

[William Morris]

I think that you have it spot on there Devil.

[PaphosAL]

I agree that Devil has it spot on. Rationing in UK was still going on into the mid 50's. I can remember it well (though I was only 7 / 8 years old) when helping my Mum do her weekly shop around the various counters at the then Sainsburys in Luton.

My primary task was to hold a place for her in the NEXT queue, LOL! (We never had any arguments from fellow shoppers about that). Plus help her by carrying a couple of bags on the 1 mile walk back home, of course...

AL

[Loxely Man]

Sorry, but your argument is totally wrong. It is true that industry was under-equipped but because the war effort had worn it out from over-work and years of diy repairs. You forget that the UK was totally stony-broke without two spare bronze pennies to rub together.

Utterly wrong! Our workforce had to compete using old production methods and clapped out machinery against newly equipped countries like Germany who we had just defeated. How many German factories were operating on belt fed machinery? Come on tell us.
So the Empire Windrush immigrants and the likes put us back on our feet did it well that is just another conn just like the 1970s when going into the Common Market and North sea Oil & Gas came on line, we were promise a new golden age of prosperity, the figures were fixed once again, record inflation and interest rates and our prime minister going to the world bank to borrow money.
No doubt I'm wrong about that, none so blind as those who believe that the moon is made of green cheese.

[Loxely Man]

So, please stop writing rubbish, when you obviously know nothing of the real situation of the time!

I was born in Sheffield in 1943, my playgrounds were the bombed building sites just 100 yards from my home, I queued for a sack of coal in the winter of 1947 with my mother and 5 year old brother, my mother had to carry a sack of coal to the tramstop and carry it half a mile when we got off. So please don't lecture me.

[Rita Sherry]

URGENT PLEASE

Dominic


Help please - I have sent you a PM but wish to alert you to it. Sorry to disturb but once more I am having problems with posting. I have prepared a post under this topic heading and saved it as a draft but now I cannot find it. All I can find is the quote of a post to which I was replying but not my text. Is there any way you can use your magic to (a) find it for me and (b) submit it to the place it was intended for. Have spent over an hour trying to find it with no success.

Thank You