Another terrorist attack in London last night.

[cyprusgrump]

Back on Topic: London bridges ugently require traffic / pedestrian seperation using Armco Barriers down each kerbside. Relatively inexpensive and could be installed in a week. I'm amazed this wasn't implemented after the previous Westminster Bridge cowardly atrocity.

Also, have Police checkpoints on the south side of each bridge (rather like the 'Ring of Steel' around the City of London) watching for dodgy-looking characters?

But, but...

Once you have installed Armco (and police checkpoints) on every bridge they'll attack the high street (as they have on the continent).

And once you've installed Armco (and checkpoints?) down every high street they'll attack schools.

And once you surround schools, hospitals, shopping malls, bus stops, parks, stadia, concert halls, etc. with Armco...?

It is just like flying, I remember when I loved it as a huge adventure and looked forward to it with (if you were lucky) a visit to the cockpit...

Now terrorists have eroded those freedoms, forcing us to be searched, scanned, remove shoes and other clothing, dump liquids and now not even be allowed to take laptops and other electronic devices into the cabin. Where will it end...?

At some point we need to look to the source of the problem rather than trying to prevent 'the problem' from harming us with Armco.

[cyprusgrump]

The difference is that Christianity has generally speaking left the more ghastly aspects of religion behind in the past where they belong.

There are of course one or two bizarre aspects of it visible and the odd Christian nutjob.

But Islam has not left them behind. It still views the Q'uran as the book to run your life by.

it is considered blasphemy to attempt to update the mediaeval scriptures of the Koran where you're taught how to beat your wife.

Precisely!

It is the last true word of the prophet apparently, paedophile and warmonger that he was.... Not a great start for a religion really...

[PhotoLady]

Back on Topic: London bridges ugently require traffic / pedestrian seperation using Armco Barriers down each kerbside. Relatively inexpensive and could be installed in a week. I'm amazed this wasn't implemented after the previous Westminster Bridge cowardly atrocity.

Also, have Police checkpoints on the south side of each bridge (rather like the 'Ring of Steel' around the City of London) watching for dodgy-looking characters?

Cheers- AL

You were saying?
http://news.sky.com/story/anti-terror-b ... s-10904977

[cyprusgrump]

Back on Topic: London bridges ugently require traffic / pedestrian seperation using Armco Barriers down each kerbside. Relatively inexpensive and could be installed in a week. I'm amazed this wasn't implemented after the previous Westminster Bridge cowardly atrocity.

Also, have Police checkpoints on the south side of each bridge (rather like the 'Ring of Steel' around the City of London) watching for dodgy-looking characters?

Cheers- AL

You were saying?
http://news.sky.com/story/anti-terror-b ... s-10904977

Why focus solely on London? What about the rest of the UK? Or does that not matter?

Precisely.

The armed police are only 8 minutes away which is brilliant if you are in the centre of London.

But if your are attending a summer fête (or whatever soft target) in NowherenearlondonorManchester you are stuffed...

[jagwheels]

If these projections are correct then perhaps we should consider changing our religion & fight each other in the name of Alla. There has to be a better solution & I believe the leaders of the Muslim community who are the majority religion have a great responsibility in trying to change the mindset of radicals

[ApusApus]

If these projections are correct then perhaps we should consider changing our religion & fight each other in the name of Alla. There has to be a better solution & I believe the leaders of the Muslim community who are the majority religion have a great responsibility in trying to change the mindset of radicals

I agree but who actually are the leaders?


Shane

[smudger]

See my post above, Islam is a regime NOT a religion.

Any true religion - and there are actually very few of them around - provides for redemption, sorrow, forgiveness and resurrection, all leading to rebirth. Islam provides for none if this, simply compliance with the dictat of the regime.

[Jimgward]

See my post above, Islam is a regime NOT a religion.

Any true religion - and there are actually very few of them around - provides for redemption, sorrow, forgiveness and resurrection, all leading to rebirth. Islam provides for none if this, simply compliance with the dictat of the regime.

Good luck arguing your side, with that one....

[smudger]

I'm happy to keep trying Jim!

[Dominic]

Interesting comments regarding the Q'uran.....
"Being a total atheist and disregarding any religious indoctrination, a friend of mine has been having a conversation with a number of others on her social media page about Muslims, their beliefs and trying to explain it is not all Muslims who are attacking as terrorists but those who are radicalists. My friend was brought up in Ireland (the north) and quoted a couple of lines from Deuteronomy 13, which I admit I knew nothing of.

So I Googled it and this is what I found


Scary stuff this religion No wonder there are so many nut jobs in our world! It only takes someone easily led to take on board those kind of statements and there's another one off down the road to the point of no return.

It's just as well the majority are normal, everyday people who have a true sense of well being and know that what is written is clearly not an instruction."

The massive difference between Christianity and all other 'religions' is simply Jesus Christ.

He alone atoned for all the sins of mankind by dying on the cross, meaning we simply have to acknowledge and repent of our sins to receive the forgiveness of God.

No other religion offers this forgiveness. Which is why Islam is totally unforgiving and demands followers comply with its restrictions totally and with no concessions, no way of turning back, no forgiveness. Compliance is the only option.

In my opinion this simply makes Islam a regime and not a religion.

How do you know that no other religion offers forgiveness?

I too did a quick google, and quickly found this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_views_on_sin

That would imply that sinning and forgiveness is alive and well in Islam.

And this article helpfully lists the attitudes of all the major religions with regards forgiveness:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forgiveness

As you can see, Christianity is far from alone in having forgiveness.

[PaphosAL]

Fair comment, Dominic! Jacs? RSVP...

[Jimgward]

I thought this Boris video, on the suppressed Saudi funding, is quite telling...

[smudger]

You're missing my point Dominic.

Christianity is the only religion which allows unconditional forgiveness due to the sacrifice of Jesus Christ. What you have linked in Islam is a list of sins, presumably defined by Mohammed, the punishments for such sins, depending if they're 'big' sins or 'little' sins, and some such as those punishable in the afterlife clearly leaving no room for forgiveness.

This is not forgiveness, it's simply a list of instructions as to absolving sins. The opening paragraph says it all, "Sin is an important concept in Islamic ethics......" Note, sin, not forgiveness

Foregiveness which has to be earned is not forgiveness, it's simply a bargaining tool to alleviate the perceived sin.

Christianity prescribes no punishments, all it requires is asking forgiveness in the name of Christ, the one who died for our sins and the sinner is absolved from the sins. Redemption is His, not ours. We cannot be forgiven by complying with a list of instructions. Only God forgives and He demands no punishment.

Punishing a sinner bears no relationship to foregiveness.

As I said, no way back. Islam is a harsh religion, far more concerned with punishment than forgiveness.

[Dominic]

This is what the second link I posted had to say about Islam and FORGIVENESS. It also covered the other major religions. I suggest you go back and read that link, as you quite clearly haven't yet done so.

Islam[edit]
Bismillahir Rahmanir Rahim
Part of a series on
God in Islam
"Allah" in Arabic calligraphy
Allah Jalla Jalālah
in Arabic calligraphy
List[show]
Category Islam portal
v t e
Islam teaches that Allah is Al-Ghaffur "The Oft-Forgiving", and is the original source of all forgiveness (ghufran غفران). Seeking forgiveness from Allah with repentance is a virtue.[20][21][22]
(...) Allah forgives what is past: for repetition Allah will exact from him the penalty. For Allah is Exalted, and Lord of Retribution.
— Quran 5:95
Islam recommends forgiveness, because Allah values forgiveness. There are numerous verses in Quran and the Hadiths recommending forgiveness. However, Islam also allows revenge to the extent harm done, but forgiveness is encouraged, with a promise of reward from Allah.[23][24]
The recompense for an injury is an injury equal thereto (in degree): but if a person forgives and makes reconciliation, his reward is due from Allah: for (Allah) loveth not those who do wrong.
— Quran 42:40
Afw (عفو is another term for forgiveness in Islam; it occurs 35 times in Quran, and in some Islamic theological studies, it is used interchangeably with ghufran.[20][21][25] Afw means to pardon, to excuse for a fault or an offense. According to Muhammad Amanullah,[26] forgiveness ('Afw) in Islam is derived from three wisdoms. First and the most important wisdom of forgiveness is that it is merciful when the victim or guardian of the victim accepts money instead of revenge.[27][28] The second wisdom of forgiveness is that it increases honor and prestige of the one who forgives.[26] Forgiveness is not a sign of weakness, humiliation or dishonor.[21] Forgiveness is honor, raises the merit of the forgiver in the eyes of Allah, and enables a forgiver to enter paradise.[26] The third wisdom of forgiveness is that according to some scholars, such as al-Tabari and al-Qurtubi, forgiveness expiates (kaffarah) the forgiver from the sins he or she may have committed at other occasions in life.[21][29] Forgiveness is a form of charity (sadaqat). Forgiveness comes from taqwa (piety), a quality of God-fearing people.[26]

[cyprusgrump]

This is what the second link I posted had to say about Islam and FORGIVENESS. It also covered the other major religions. I suggest you go back and read that link, as you quite clearly haven't yet done so.

You need to be very careful about quoting random parts of the Quran from the Interwebz.

The Quran was written over time and the earlier verses were quite peaceful. Hence Islam is frequently described as 'a religion of peace'.

Later verses were much more violent. Kill infidels, etc.

Unfortunately, through a process of Abrogation the later verses nullify the earlier verses.

I'm not saying that the part you have chosen to quote is wrong - I'm not an expert on religion of any flavour - but it is something to be considered.

Also, remember that Taqiyya - lying to promote Islam - is perfectly acceptable to Muslims. Therefore, an article on Wiki is unlikely to show Islam in an unfavourable light.

I hope you will read the links I have provided.

[smudger]

Actually I have Dominic, but it doesn't affect my previous comment. Forgiveness is not paramount in Islam, punishment is. in any case, Islams 'form' of forgiveness is conditional and/or dependent on performing the requisite punishment. This is not Holy forgiveness.

True forgiveness which can only come from God doesn't attract rewards, save that of knowing you do Gods will, nor does it demand compensations or punishments. This is not Gods will, nor His commandment. No one makes bargains with God.

No one but God has the power to forgive; performing a whole host of acts of attrition will not change that, nor will it bring true forgiveness.

The only key to forgiveness lies in Jesus Christ and Islam does not recognise Him.

[DavidatLWH]

True forgiveness which can only come from God doesn't attract rewards, save that of knowing you do Gods will, nor does it demand compensations or punishments. This is not Gods will, nor His commandment. No one makes bargains with God.

No one but God has the power to forgive; performing a whole host of acts of attrition will not change that, nor will it bring true forgiveness.

For me, and I suspect many on here, statements like this illustrate why religion is the cause of so much misery in the world, and has been for hundreds of years.

[WHL]

Its not religion thats the problem....its people who use it for their own ends.

[Rita Sherry]

Actually I have Dominic, but it doesn't affect my previous comment. Forgiveness is not paramount in Islam, punishment is. in any case, Islams 'form' of forgiveness is conditional and/or dependent on performing the requisite punishment. This is not Holy forgiveness.

True forgiveness which can only come from God doesn't attract rewards, save that of knowing you do Gods will, nor does it demand compensations or punishments. This is not Gods will, nor His commandment. No one makes bargains with God.

No one but God has the power to forgive; performing a whole host of acts of attrition will not change that, nor will it bring true forgiveness.

The only key to forgiveness lies in Jesus Christ and Islam does not recognise Him.

Smudger (Jacs)

Slight correction to the last line of your recent post i.e. Islam does not "recognise him" (Jesus Christ) I think you will find it does. Jesus is recognised as a prophet but not the "Son of God" by Islam and his mother Mary is also referred to in the Q'oran.

Otherwise I am with you on the majority of what you say.

Rita

[Rita Sherry]

Actually I have Dominic, but it doesn't affect my previous comment. Forgiveness is not paramount in Islam, punishment is. in any case, Islams 'form' of forgiveness is conditional and/or dependent on performing the requisite punishment. This is not Holy forgiveness.

True forgiveness which can only come from God doesn't attract rewards, save that of knowing you do Gods will, nor does it demand compensations or punishments. This is not Gods will, nor His commandment. No one makes bargains with God.

No one but God has the power to forgive; performing a whole host of acts of attrition will not change that, nor will it bring true forgiveness.

The only key to forgiveness lies in Jesus Christ and Islam does not recognise Him.

Smudger (Jacs)

Slight correction to the last line of your recent post i.e. Islam does not "recognise him" (Jesus Christ) I think you will find it does. Jesus is recognised as a prophet but not the "Son of God" by Islam and his mother Mary is also referred to in the Q'oran.

Otherwise I am with you on the majority of what you say.

DavidatWLH

It is not religion per se which causes so much misery but its wrongful interpretation by human beings. There are two paths in this life "the right path and the wrong path" God gave us the choice of which to take. Some of us find ourselves on the wrong path accidentally others as a deliberate way of life - our choice but it is never the will of God.

Rita