BREXIT negotiations re UK citizens in the EU and EU citizens in the UK

[josef k]

Josef k

We managed ok before we joined, so I can see no reason why we shouldn't manage ok when we leave. One fact to support one side of the debate.

Jackie

We joined in 1973. I think it is reasonable to assume that during the intervening 44 years there may have been a few changes in the world.

[Firefly]

josef,

You wanted facts, I have given you one. Fact, we managed very well before joining the EU. Of course there have been changes in the world, and ?

Jackie

[Poppy]

There appear to be a lot more positives coming out now: this is one quote from a french minister

Meanwhile, France's new European affairs minister has warned the EU not to underestimate the British in Brexit negotiations.

Addressing the French National Assembly, Nathalie Loiseau’s comments came on the day David Davis’ team completed the first round of talks in Brussels.

The minister said: “Let’s be realistic. We must maintain the unity of the 27.

“The Brits, even if they are overwhelmed by the scale of their task, should not be underestimated. They are great negotiators.”

Also apparently Michel Barnier has said that the EU could implode without us making substantial payments as so much has already been promised by the EU to various countries.
I really do think they are seriously worried, most especially Germany as the biggest contributor

[holitec]

Josef,

In 1973 the world was different. How many Japanese cars were in the UK, ok a few Datsuns/Toyota's, a few Honda Motorbikes, no Indian call centres, in fact no computers unless from IBM/ICL and possibly a commodore pet - I think I have one somewhere from the 70's, plus even a 1971 Honda Motorbike! Most cheap stuff came from Hong Kong - still a British Asset then.

In the 70's Europe was completely different, a group of about 10 similar nations wishing to trade, no EU, just a Common Market.

Today, we trade globally, not just locally. The cost of shipping a container between continents is actually not much more than sending a container or a lorry from Birmingham to Rome, things have moved on.

With regard to the EU budget for 2021-2027, they will have to adjust it quite a bit as there will not be 10Bn or so coming in. However, I do think the UK will have to keep it's contributions until 2020 - it already agreed to the budget in 2013, you cannot just walk away.

[Firefly]

I still fail to understand why we have so many EU rules and regulations regarding trade agreements, when nearly everything we buy is made in China.

Can anyone explain please ?

Jackie

[Pete G]

I still fail to understand why we have so many EU rules and regulations regarding trade agreements, when nearly everything we buy is made in China.

Can anyone explain please ?

Jackie

Trade rules are not to facilitate trade, but rather to protect managed [especially socialist style] economies from the liberating effects on their markets of unlimited free trade, and stop prices and imports spiralling out of control when global economies decide to come up with wizard wheezes like Quantative Easing [i.e. Central Banks lending money to Governments which doesn't actually exist [or at least they have no value cover for] ], so they can continue to spend more than they are taking in tax revenue.

The Chinese economy [at the moment anyway] is so well differentiated between internal and external spending, and the EU so dependant on it as a source of growth that they can pretty much do what they please, as any EU trade restrictions will be force fed back to them 10 fold, without China breaking a sweat, whilst the African [especially agrarian] economies are so dependent on aid, that no insult to free trade is too great [like a 200% tariff on some African foodstuffs, for example] for them to impose reciprocal restrictions on EU goods.

The EU 'facilitating' free trade is actually protectionism dressed up in pretty clothes in the hope that no one notices how ugly it actually is. Because ultimately in the long term, protectionism is bad for everyone, not least for the massive government overspending it facilitates

[Firefly]

Pete

Thank you for that. It all sounds very unsettling to me.

Jackie