Terrible tower block fire in London

[aphrodite]

Here is the Just Giving link for donations to help these poor souls:

https://www.justgiving.com/crowdfunding ... =R4xwbxbGV

Thanks- AL

You beat me to it, I was just about to post this link. Being a Londoner I'm really feeling this and have already made a donation for those who have been displaced by this disaster.

The announcement by Teresa May for a public enquiry was the right thing to do. X

[Firefly]

RW

You say that the cladding may be aluminium, for Heaven's sake, if memory serves, wasn't that the cause of so much loss of life in The Falklands War ?

Jackie

[PhotoLady]

You can always rely on the British people for their humour, no matter how wry.....

This has made a lot of people smile today posted by fireman "Mick A33":

[PaphosAL]

Love it! Thanks crispymick (and your brave colleagues) for risking your lives in this man-made tragedy...

Thanks for sharing it with us, PhotoLady. Another recent topic asked "What makes men cry?"

Posting this has certainly brought the tissues out for me...

It's heartlifting to read about how the local populace and Churches etc instantly came together and gave the survivors food, accommodation, clothes, councelling and so on!

Faulty electrics on a fridge in one flat? Absolutely beggars belief in this day and age...

[Jimgward]

Public Inquiry V Inquest

From Newsnight.

https://youtu.be/RwNiNlJaiQc

[Firefly]

Rally tonight, what for Heaven knows, I just hope it doesn't end in a riot. From the news this morning, it seems that there is a lot of bitterness toward the 'haves' from the 'have nots'. Can't see quite how that figures in this terrible tragedy, surely it's a time for healing, not screaming for money.

Jackie

[jeba]

Rally tonight, what for Heaven knows, I just hope it doesn't end in a riot. From the news this morning, it seems that there is a lot of bitterness toward the 'haves' from the 'have nots'. Can't see quite how that figures in this terrible tragedy, surely it's a time for healing, not screaming for money.

Jackie

Well, you´ll need a lot of money to fireproof all high-rise buildings in the UK. I wonder how many people would willingly accept the current safety standards if given the choice to pay a higher rent to finance additional safety or keep safety standards and rent as they are.

[Firefly]

Jeba

Obviously the safety standards fall far short of the bare necessities, all will be revealed in time as to who is to blame for this disaster. Unsure who would be willing to pay for what, that's a question for the individual renters. My point is that we can't have a mob baying for money at this time, I hope that doesn't turn out to be the case tonight.

Jackie

[Jimgward]

Rally tonight, what for Heaven knows, I just hope it doesn't end in a riot. From the news this morning, it seems that there is a lot of bitterness toward the 'haves' from the 'have nots'. Can't see quite how that figures in this terrible tragedy, surely it's a time for healing, not screaming for money.

Jackie

Well, you´ll need a lot of money to fireproof all high-rise buildings in the UK. I wonder how many people would willingly accept the current safety standards if given the choice to pay a higher rent to finance additional safety or keep safety standards and rent as they are.

It's being widely quoted today that £200k and less than £100k would have installed sprinklers and fire-resistant insulation. So penny-pinching definitely at fault. Although many parties obviously to blame, from Council, to constructor, to fire officers, H&S and Government.

[Jimgward]

Just watched BBC interview with Theresa May, sorry, but anyone who thinks she is good enough to lead this country and handle Brexit, needs their head looked at. I've never seen a more insincere and fumbling leader. She is already out of their depth. I'm no Tory voter, but I now realise anyone to replace here would be better, even Boris!

[Poppy]

TM really cannot win whatever she does! I believe she is doing well in very difficult circumstances. I saw on tv that the Queen and William visited but that was nor good enough for some as they did not go and speak to everyone! The near riots and storming the council buildings is helping no one.It is a terrible tragedy that should never have happened but it has and I believe that everyone is now trying to do everything possible to help the people involved. I wonder just how many of the people inciting the near riots are actually personally involved. I think they should take a cue from the people involved in the Manchester and London atrocities and try to act responsibly and with dignity.

[Jimgward]

TM really cannot win whatever she does! I believe she is doing well in very difficult circumstances. I saw on tv that the Queen and William visited but that was nor good enough for some as they did not go and speak to everyone! The near riots and storming the council buildings is helping no one.It is a terrible tragedy that should never have happened but it has and I believe that everyone is now trying to do everything possible to help the people involved. I wonder just how many of the people inciting the near riots are actually personally involved. I think they should take a cue from the people involved in the Manchester and London atrocities and try to act responsibly and with dignity.

The London and Manchester attreocities were only to be blamed on terrorism.

The Grenfell tower disaster can only be laid to blame at a number of involved companies, public servants and individuals.

I would hope nobody is stirring things up. If they are, shame on them. However, this was a disaster waiting to happen and its no surprise that angers are easily stirred.

As to May doing her best, sorry, but she immediately sought an Inquiry to prevent an Inquest to protect herself and other politicians. She again, cannot defend spending cuts to emergency services, again bearing the brunt of a disaster. The fire service in London is stretched and these heroes are working conditions that should never be asked. TM is the head and therefore corporately responsible.

[bromerzz]

Attempted Political point scoring from the Labour Party Leader, Labour held Council and Labour London Mayor, perhaps they should resign as the Incumbents at the time of this Disaster.
Seems only fair if they are trying to force out the PM for being the boss lady.

[Varky]

Attempted Political point scoring from the Labour Party Leader, Labour held Council and Labour London Mayor, perhaps they should resign as the Incumbents at the time of this Disaster.
Seems only fair if they are trying to force out the PM for being the boss lady.

Really, you think that just because they are the present incumbents that they should bear the responsibility for other's failings.
Those that were in power and responsible in any way for blocking or not upholding legislation that could have prevented this disaster should be those held responsible, whether they be Labour, Conservative or Screaming Lord Such. Not sure that they are wanting to force out TM just because she is the boss lady, but because there might be something in the past when she was home Secretary.

[Varky]

RW
You say that the cladding may be aluminium, for Heaven's sake, if memory serves, wasn't that the cause of so much loss of life in The Falklands War ?
Jackie

I think you might find that the insulation within the aluminium panels might form part of the problem. Having worked for several years on high rise buildings in Dubai for one of the most reputable developers, I know that a great deal of concern was taken to the fire rating of cladding insulation to the extent that many materials were rejected in favour of more expensive but safer material. Even though there have been well documented fires in Dubai on high rise buildings none of them involved such safe material. Pity the authorities in Kensington did not learn from Dubai's experience.

[Poppy]

Jimgward,of course the Manchester and London acts of terrorism were different,although many tried to lay the blame for them at the Governments door too! You cannot deny though that all those affected by those incidents have been so very dignified in their grief and they had just as much right to be angry as anyone. I am not racist at all but it does appear that many survivors from the fire were not of british ethnicity and do have a more volatile nature than the more stoic british in general and I do fear there will be more serious rioting. I actually saw them attacking the police who have been through hell in the last few weeks and I believe it is the police,along with the fire service who now have the task of recovering the remains of the dead which I am sure with all their experience each and every one of them must be dreading.

[Poppy]

I do wish people would get their facts right. She has been to visit the survivors in hospital. She has also met some of the tenants in a nearby church. Then as the situation was getting volatile even shouting at Prince William who seemed clearly torn at going over to them or listening to his security team and was eventually hustled into his car, I presume all government officials and royalty have now been advised to stay away.

[Poppy]

Lloyd I presume that you have now seen on tv that she both visited survivors both in church and in hospital. The media even commented on her expression. Was she supposed to be laughing? It appears that everyone is out to get her in a real witch hunt and it is not nice at all.

[Jimgward]

Well said Poppy, there seems to a politically inspired and indeed directed move against Mrs May, the daily Telegraph is reporting that the protests in regard to this tragedy are being provoked by activists . These are extremely dangerous times...and I would not be surprised to see an escalation of these protests into violence, violence led by those that wish our country harm..

If indeed, provocateurs are stirring things, shame on them. Sadly, they'll find a willing group feel9ng let down by the society around them.

I believe the protests at the council was because of lack of action and information from them. They felt let down. I must admit, if I was affected similarly, I'd want to string someone up, so who am I to react to how they feel?

There has been systematic abuse of people within social housing. They have been let down by a society sworn to do the best by them. Best price has overtaken best value and people have let slip standards. A proper inquest, not an inquiry, as May has deemed, will tell us all who is to blame, as blame is indeed relevant.

[Steve - SJD]

Jimgward,of course the Manchester and London acts of terrorism were different,although many tried to lay the blame for them at the Governments door too! You cannot deny though that all those affected by those incidents have been so very dignified in their grief and they had just as much right to be angry as anyone. I am not racist at all but it does appear that many survivors from the fire were not of british ethnicity and do have a more volatile nature than the more stoic british in general and I do fear there will be more serious rioting. I actually saw them attacking the police who have been through hell in the last few weeks and I believe it is the police,along with the fire service who now have the task of recovering the remains of the dead which I am sure with all their experience each and every one of them must be dreading.

Yes they were massively different so not sure how the reactions can be compared. Who would those who suffered at the hands of the terrorists
direct their anger towards? In the case of the fire there appears to have been failings which resulted in a huge loss of life that will probably end
up in three digits. Other issues have arisen since the fire so whilst I don't want to see any trouble I can appreciate the rising anger and frustration
directed towards those they believe to be responsible i.e. the council.

Also looking at the various videos of the protests today they did look like a very mixed group. There looked to be a few political activists
mixed in with the crowds and more than a few of British ethnicity so perhaps not so stoic.

Cheers

Steve