Labour election results 'catastrophic'

[Jim B]

Hudswell even people with the same ideals as you are agreeing it was pure opportunism and nothing to do with being held to ransom. But if it makes you happy.

[Dominic]

I wasn't having a pop, I was stating a fact. The activists think they speak for the country. They are clearly deluded.

Can I just check Dominic? Are you saying that the activists in the Labour party (i.e. the members) shouldn't have a say in who their leader is to be? That is what democracy is all about isn't it?
If that is you view, who do you think should decide the Labour leader?

The elected Labour members of parliament. They were elected by the general public.

[Varky]

I wasn't having a pop, I was stating a fact. The activists think they speak for the country. They are clearly deluded.

Can I just check Dominic? Are you saying that the activists in the Labour party (i.e. the members) shouldn't have a say in who their leader is to be? That is what democracy is all about isn't it?
If that is you view, who do you think should decide the Labour leader?

The elected Labour members of parliament. They were elected by the general public.

Because UK has a party system then it is the genuine members of the party that should choose their party leader. It is that membership that also chooses their parliamentary candidates for individual constituencies. If those candidates are unable to support their elected leader in parliament then they should not be standing as candidates.

However if those choices go against what the general electorate's way of thinking is, then they must suffer the consequences.

Unfortunately that is what is happening to the labour party at present.

[tonee]

How anyone can vote for a party where the leader and deputy are both out and out terrorist sympathisers is beyond me.Many pics doing the rounds on social media of Corbyn with IRA leaders,also lets not forget when he stood in silence as an act of rememberance of three IRA terrorists rightly shot by the SAS.Can anyone really imagine this trosky being Prime Minister?Your aving a laugh!!

[Cogs123]

No Hudswell, It was the will of some of the people, albeit, of those that voted, the leave campaign won, my point is, that calling this ill timed GE (at the beginning of the Brexit negotiations ), She has favored her party over the British people by destroying all opposition.
It is not a democracy just having a one party state...it then becomes a dictatorship, with all dissenters removed, you might be happy with that, I certainly am not.
As for the PM's & her cabinets capabilities in delivering the promised Brexit...I do not share your obvious confidence in her.

[ApusApus]

No Hudswell, It was the will of some of the people, albeit, of those that voted, the leave campaign won, my point is, that calling this ill timed GE (at the beginning of the Brexit negotiations ), She has favored her party over the British people by destroying all opposition.
It is not a democracy just having a one party state...it then becomes a dictatorship, with all dissenters removed, you might be happy with that, I certainly am not.
As for the PM's & her cabinets capabilities in delivering the promised Brexit...I do not share your obvious confidence in her.

Sorry but when did you ever think that the UK would become a dictatorship, with etc ............. think you may have to check your history on this?


Shane

[cyprusgrump]

No Hudswell, It was the will of some of the people, albeit, of those that voted, the leave campaign won, my point is, that calling this ill timed GE (at the beginning of the Brexit negotiations ), She has favored her party over the British people by destroying all opposition.
It is not a democracy just having a one party state...it then becomes a dictatorship, with all dissenters removed, you might be happy with that, I certainly am not.
As for the PM's & her cabinets capabilities in delivering the promised Brexit...I do not share your obvious confidence in her.

Honestly, calling a general election and giving the demos a free vote is now a 'dictatorship'...? Really...?

If you vote for a party based on their manifesto commitments you want them to deliver on that once they are in power.

All this 'strong opposition holding the government to account' is just B/S. If you vote for a party with a manifesto that meets your political views - and they get elected - you want that manifesto to be delivered.

Clearly, there are unforeseen circumstances that may arise during a parliament but apart from that I do not think it unreasonable that the people get what they voted for.

Sadly, it was Gordon Brown who proved that manifesto commitments had no value in law.

Rather than complaining about 'destroying all opposition' you should maybe focus on politicians delivering what the public voted for.

[Cogs123]

CG,
Please spare me from your sanctimonious ramblings, if my posts irritate you, then by all means block them.

[cyprusgrump]

CG,
Please spare me from your sanctimonious ramblings, if my posts irritate you, then by all means block them.

Oh noes! Not irritating at all!

Highly amusing!

Especially the bit where calling a GE is akin to a dictatorship...

[Royal]

...it was pure opportunism and nothing to do with being held to ransom.

Aren't you forgetting that under the Fixed Term Parliaments Act 2011, the Prime Minister doesn't have the authority to call a General Election without a ⅔ majority in the House of Commons? Theresa May put it to the vote on 19 April and no less than 522 MPs of ALL political parties agreed that there should be a General Election. Only 13 MPs voted against. So why do you keep referring to the General Election 2017 as purely a Theresa May opportunistic idea?

[Royal]

It is not a democracy just having a one party state...it then becomes a dictatorship, with all dissenters removed, you might be happy with that, I certainly am not.

Apart from the coalition government of 2010-2015, the vast majority of our governments since WW2 could presumably be construed (by you) as being a one party state? Democracy rules in our country, and when the majority vote for one party - that's the will of the people in action, surely?

[Jim B]

Royal

I'm not forgetting anything' Corbyn is deluded as May is about Brexit and thinks he can win the GE that's why he supported the GE in the Parliamentary vote instead of using some common sense and voting against it. Also I don't believe Cogs was saying what you and Grumpy are inferring he said, I suggest you both read what he actually did write several times and it may become clearer.

Jim

[Royal]

Royal

I'm not forgetting anything' Corbyn is deluded as May is about Brexit and thinks he can win the GE that's why he supported the GE in the Parliamentary vote instead of using some common sense and voting against it.

The point, Jim, is that there would not be a GE2017 if Labour did not support it. You cannot blame May as being solely responsible. She put it to Parliament and got a favourable vote. Democracy in action.

Also I don't believe Cogs was saying what you and Grumpy are inferring he said, I suggest you both read what he actually did write several times and it may become clearer.

The great thing about Forums is the ability to quote the individual. Words are important and no matter how you construe things, Cogs has said what he said and I can read as well as anyone.

[Dominic]

Can I just check Dominic? Are you saying that the activists in the Labour party (i.e. the members) shouldn't have a say in who their leader is to be? That is what democracy is all about isn't it?
If that is you view, who do you think should decide the Labour leader?

The elected Labour members of parliament. They were elected by the general public.

Because UK has a party system then it is the genuine members of the party that should choose their party leader. It is that membership that also chooses their parliamentary candidates for individual constituencies. If those candidates are unable to support their elected leader in parliament then they should not be standing as candidates.

However if those choices go against what the general electorate's way of thinking is, then they must suffer the consequences.

Unfortunately that is what is happening to the labour party at present.

You may think that right. I disagree. My point however, was that it was Ed Miliband who introduced the current voting system so that all members had an equal vote. Prior to 2015, that wasn't the case.

[Cogs123]

I agree Royal, but the political landscape in the UK as it stands at the moment shows how unpopular the opposition are in the polls, which probably reflects their feelings on an ineffective & weak leadership.
Holding this GE now, in order to wipe out the opposition, is nothing short of political opportunism, if this was at any other time in our country's history, I would not blame them for doing so, it would make sense.
What bothers me is, that we stand at the crossroads of such a pivotal & monumental time in our country's history, & I feel slightly uncomfortable that those decisions taken, will not go unchallenged if they are not in the best interests of the country as a whole.

[Cogs123]

Jim B,
Thank you, clearly you understood that it was meant 'metaphorically rather than literally', some people just chose to be pedantic.

Maggie

[Royal]

I agree Royal, but the political landscape in the UK as it stands at the moment shows how unpopular the opposition are in the polls, which probably reflects their feelings on an ineffective & weak leadership.
Holding this GE now, in order to wipe out the opposition, is nothing short of political opportunism, if this was at any other time in our country's history, I would not blame them for doing so, it would make sense.
What bothers me is, that we stand at the crossroads of such a pivotal & monumental time in our country's history, & I feel slightly uncomfortable that those decisions taken, will not go unchallenged if they are not in the best interests of the country as a whole.

I agree that the official opposition are unpopular, weak and ineffective but that is mainly because it is led by one man - Jeremy Corbyn. A vote for him is a vote for unilateral nuclear disarmament, pulling the UK out of NATO, re-nationalisation of the railways and public utilities, the return of the power of the Trades Unions and higher taxes to pay for all the socialist promises he has made. He is also an apologist for the Provisional IRA, Hezbollah and Hamas. He leads a deeply divided party and throughout the last year has been 'wishy-washy' about Brexit. However, he is not a one man band and the Labour Party has another 231 MPs in the House of Commons who could (and should) hold the Conservative Government to account. Instead, we have the likes of the racist Diane Abbot who cannot add up - if she was counting the votes would give the Labour Party a majority of 160 million with a national turnout of 178%. You cannot seriously expect Theresa May to feel sorry for this sorry bunch of losers and not call a General Election in order to maximise the political advantage, ensure she has the mandate that she is being accused of not having and of increasing her ability to play hardball with a bullying and arrogant EU. I have every confidence that she is a safe pair of hands, and the idea that we are heading towards a dictatorship with a landslide Conservative majority is far removed from reality. The next Parliament will reflect the democratic will of the nation as did last year's Referendum.

The vast majority of Labour MPs also clearly believed in, and voted for, having an early General Election, as did the other parties - SNP, Greens etc. In fact only 13 MPs voted against having a General Election this year. It's not just the wish of Theresa May.

[Jim B]

I agree Royal, but the political landscape in the UK as it stands at the moment shows how unpopular the opposition are in the polls, which probably reflects their feelings on an ineffective & weak leadership.
Holding this GE now, in order to wipe out the opposition, is nothing short of political opportunism, if this was at any other time in our country's history, I would not blame them for doing so, it would make sense.
What bothers me is, that we stand at the crossroads of such a pivotal & monumental time in our country's history, & I feel slightly uncomfortable that those decisions taken, will not go unchallenged if they are not in the best interests of the country as a whole.

I agree that the official opposition are unpopular, weak and ineffective but that is mainly because it is led by one man - Jeremy Corbyn. A vote for him is a vote for unilateral nuclear disarmament, pulling the UK out of NATO, re-nationalisation of the railways and public utilities, the return of the power of the Trades Unions and higher taxes to pay for all the socialist promises he has made. He is also an apologist for the Provisional IRA, Hezbollah and Hamas. He leads a deeply divided party and throughout the last year has been 'wishy-washy' about Brexit. However, he is not a one man band and the Labour Party has another 231 MPs in the House of Commons who could (and should) hold the Conservative Government to account. Instead, we have the likes of the racist Diane Abbot who cannot add up - if she was counting the votes would give the Labour Party a majority of 160 million with a national turnout of 178%. You cannot seriously expect Theresa May to feel sorry for this sorry bunch of losers and not call a General Election in order to maximise the political advantage, ensure she has the mandate that she is being accused of not having and of increasing her ability to play hardball with a bullying and arrogant EU. I have every confidence that she is a safe pair of hands, and the idea that we are heading towards a dictatorship with a landslide Conservative majority is far removed from reality. The next Parliament will reflect the democratic will of the nation as did last year's Referendum.

The vast majority of Labour MPs also clearly believed in, and voted for, having an early General Election, as did the other parties - SNP, Greens etc. In fact only 13 MPs voted against having a General Election this year. It's not just the wish of Theresa May.

Royal
There is much in your post that I haven't already said; I believe Corbyn was foolish to even consider at this moment in time that he could beat the Tories, Corbyn has too much baggage for people to vote for a party led by him and until Labour change leaders they will always be also rans. Our Democracy needs strong opposition and we haven't got it and that's what's so frightening.

Over and out

Jim

[cyprusgrump]

Over and out

Jim

It is an Internet forum - not Z-Cars...

[cyprusgrump]

I agree Royal, but the political landscape in the UK as it stands at the moment shows how unpopular the opposition are in the polls, which probably reflects their feelings on an ineffective & weak leadership.
Holding this GE now, in order to wipe out the opposition, is nothing short of political opportunism, if this was at any other time in our country's history, I would not blame them for doing so, it would make sense.
What bothers me is, that we stand at the crossroads of such a pivotal & monumental time in our country's history, & I feel slightly uncomfortable that those decisions taken, will not go unchallenged if they are not in the best interests of the country as a whole.

We have two years to negotiate - the election will be over in just a few weeks.

Surely you can see that a government with the biggest possible majority, based on a Brexit manifesto will be in the best possible negotiating position...?