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Hudswell wrote: ↑Wed May 03, 2017 11:06 am
These were the pre Brexit talk love ins which she agreed not to attend...she is fully entitled as the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom as as her representatives as full members of the EU, to attend EU meetings...They, the EU leadership are resorting to type...bullying tactics expecting the UK to roll over and be compliant with their ridiculous "demands". The tactics are clear....force the UK into a corner where the PM has no choice but to walk away and hoping to cause friction, discord and argument internally. They hope that our internal politics will force the UK to change its mind. Seriously can those of you who,voted to remain, can you seriously accept this totally corrupt organisation having any say in your lives? They have lost all credibility and like many before have totally underestimated the resolve of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.....I rarely get angry....I am now...and I suspect the mood of the country will harden against these fools.
I agree and this is quite outrageous that they re behaving in such a manner. However I have to say I am not surprised. Bullies usually act like this until they are confronted. However, don't forget, according to some the EU do hold all the aces! Just thought I'd add that to lighten things.
The Times is carrying an article today which states that our Prime Minister cannot lead the Brexit negotiations and cannot talk to the other EU leaders about Brexit matters. Apparently, she is only 'allowed' to talk to Michel Barnier:
So if I read this correct they are saying that TM cannot lead our side in the Brexit negotiations. Who are they to decide this. More 'bullyboy' tactics it seems. They also appear to have upped their divorce settlement fee to £100 billion (or may be €)
What did any of the 19 countries which joined the EEC/EU after the UK pay to join the club and partake of the assets and subsequent gravy train where many have remained net 'takers' rather than contributors? Nothing. Zero. Zilch. Nada.
Yet we - a net contributor throughout our 44 years of membership, are 'required' to pay a 'leaving fee'. As David Davis has stated - of course we will pay our legal obligations, but nothing more and nothing less.
Doesn't the EU remind you of the Hotel California as sung by The Eagles? Here are some of the appropriate lyrics to jog your memory (I have taken the liberty of exchanging just one word and substituted 'Germany' for 'Tiffany'!)
"This could be Heaven or this could be Hell"
"Her mind is Germany-twisted, she got the Mercedes bends
She got a lot of pretty, pretty boys she calls friends
How they dance in the courtyard, sweet summer sweat.
Some dance to remember, some dance to forget"
Mirrors on the ceiling,
The pink champagne on ice
And she said "We are all just prisoners here, of our own device"
And in the master's chambers,
They gathered for the feast
They stab it with their steely knives,
But they just can't kill the beast
Last thing I remember, I was
Running for the door
I had to find the passage back
To the place I was before
"Relax, " said the night man,
"We are programmed to receive. You can check-out any time you like,
But you can never leave!"
As the EU is talking of expanding even more to potentially include Macedonia, Serbia, Bosnia, Turkey, Albania and Kosovo, even the chorus seems appropriate:
Welcome to the Hotel California
Such a lovely place (Such a lovely place)
Such a lovely face
Plenty of room at the Hotel California
Any time of year (Any time of year)
You can find it here
PhotoLady wrote: ↑Wed May 03, 2017 12:11 pm
Is anyone really totally surprised at their actions? It was always going to be their way or the hard way....
Frankly, yes I am surprised. I thought that we could deal with adults. It seems not...
PhotoLady wrote: ↑Wed May 03, 2017 12:11 pm
Is anyone really totally surprised at their actions? It was always going to be their way or the hard way....
The EU are not going to roll over and have their bellies scratched while UK walks away humming "My Way" as they head out the door.
Agreed - Maybe Mrs May should have been concentrating her efforts on what are obviously going to be difficult negotiations rather than playing party politics. A GE is an unnecessary distraction at this important time and a complete waste of time, money & resources.
Greece's ex Finance Minister, Yiani's Varoufakis (who has had first hand experience of dealing with Brussels) and speaking to Sky News summarised the EU position like this:
“What Mr Barnier just said...is this: ‘We’re going to enter a negotiation, you must commit in advance to everything we want from you, without us committing to giving you anything back. When you have given us a full commitment on everything we want, then at some point with the clock ticking beyond the two-year period, then we will think about what you want". It’s effectively a declaration of hostility.”"
What Mr Barnier just said...is this: ‘We’re going to enter a negotiation, you must commit in advance to everything we want from you, without us committing to giving you anything back. When you have given us a full commitment on everything we want, then at some point with the clock ticking beyond the two-year period, then we will think about what you want". It’s effectively a declaration of hostility.”"
That is not negotiation that is an ultimatum and is not what a two year negotiation would require. So much for those criticising TM for 'apparently' taking a hard Brexit stance.
UK stance should be "whether or not agreement is made at the end of the two years we will stop subscribing at that date"
Theresa May has accused unnamed Eurocrats of effectively meddling in the General Election by some of their rhetoric.
This is what she had to say:
"Whoever wins on 8 June will face one overriding task: to get the best possible deal for this United Kingdom from Brexit. And in the last few days, we have seen just how tough these talks are likely to be. Britain’s negotiating position in Europe has been misrepresented in the continental press. The European commission’s negotiating stance has hardened.
Threats against Britain have been issued by European politicians and officials.
All of these acts have been deliberately timed to affect the result of the general election that will take place on 8 June.
By contrast, I made clear in my letter to the president of the European council invoking Article 50 last month that, in leaving the European Union, Britain means no harm to our friends and allies on the continent.
We continue to believe that no deal is better for Britain than a bad deal. But we want a deal. We want a deep and special partnership with the European Union. And we want the EU to succeed.
But the events of the last few days have shown that - whatever our wishes, and however reasonable the positions of Europe’s other leaders - there are some in Brussels who do not want these talks to succeed. Who do not want Britain to prosper. So now more than ever we need to be led by a prime minister and a government that is strong and stable. Because making Brexit a success is central to our national interest. And it is central to your own security and prosperity. Because while there is enormous opportunity for Britain as we leave the European Union, if we do not get this right, the consequences will be serious. And they will be felt by ordinary, working people across the country. This Brexit negotiation is central to everything."
I wonder how UK would have played their part in all this if another country member had decided to drop out of "the Club" instead of us?
It's what the majority of Remainers have thought all along - we were always going to be between a rock and a hard place. They're not going to shake our hands as we walk away from the EU.
I just wonder if whoever is in charge after the election will be looking back over their shoulder on the long, lonely walk down the corridors of Brussels....
PhotoLady wrote: ↑Wed May 03, 2017 6:47 pm
I wonder how UK would have played their part in all this if another country member had decided to drop out of "the Club" instead of us?
It's in the British psyche to play fair, and I have no doubt that given your hypothetical situation, we would have continued to do so. No threats, no bullying, no extreme rhetoric, no talk of punishment.
Britain (and Germany it has to be said) have played by the EU 'rules' even when it has hurt us economically. France, Spain, Italy et al have ignored the rules when it doesn't suit their national interests.
Look it's been 10 long months since the referendum, we've now triggered article 50 to start the two year period which by even the most optimistic commentators is a tough timescale to get it all done in. So to add to the uncertainty, to divert attention and purely for political purposes what does the Govt. do... call an election - brilliant!
Hudswell wrote: ↑Wed May 03, 2017 7:11 pm
the statements coming from its supposed leadership borders on a declaration of war! Not the conventional type of course but certainly economic....
Regards the comments that have been described as bullying, aggressive, threatening, unacceptable etc and attributed to the EU - can you give some examples? I don't mean gossip that is reported as news or figures put together by a journalist but what has actually been stated by those responsible for the negotiations ahead.
So how do you differentiate between gossip......and actually stated by.......
Seems to me that many statements on this thread, let alone others, are replicas of statements spewing out of the EU.
I think statements from Juncker in particular, let alone Barnier, are pretty well documented and factual??
Nothing coming from the EU speaks of agreement, negotiation, compromise, ......... simply dictatorial demands, requisites, conditions. Barnier's statement today was pretty unequivocal!
Sorry Steve, I struggle to see how you can see the EU attitude or approach as anything other than dictatorial, demanding, aggressive, unequivocal, threatening..........
Maybe you could enlighten us as to how caring, complicit, understanding, FAIR, JUST, LEGAL, friendly, ACCOUNTABLE the EU is??
I think the UK approach has to be an accountable justification for their demands, for demands is exactly what they are. Given that no accounts for the EU have ever been audited and signed off, the result should be interesting, to say the least,
Justification for the demands really and truly has to be proven. Given that demands have varied from 50b, 60b, 100b then justification really has to be forthcoming.
The problem for the EU is that the UK is the third largest contributor to the EU, a huge hole which will be left after we leave, so understandable they are hedging their bets. However, this is indisputably NO REASON whatsoever to fleece the UK.
Steve - SJD wrote: ↑Wed May 03, 2017 8:25 pm
Regards the comments that have been described as bullying, aggressive, threatening, unacceptable etc and attributed to the EU - can you give some examples? I don't mean gossip that is reported as news or figures put together by a journalist but what has actually been stated by those responsible for the negotiations ahead.
Steve
Reported in the Independent on 2 May 17:
The European Parliament’s chief Brexit co-ordinator has mocked Theresa May’s election campaign slogan, by suggesting she lacks a “strong and stable” understanding of the complex issues around Britain’s withdrawal from the EU.
Guy Verhofstadt, already a fierce critic of the Prime Minister, finished his attack by saying it is “time to get real” about how difficult a Brexit deal may be.
Reported in the Guardian on 22 Apr 17:
Theresa May’s claim that she will be strengthened in the Brexit talks by a general election victory has been dismissed as nonsense by the European parliament’s Brexit coordinator, who has condemned the prime minister as a political opportunist.
In an outspoken attack, Guy Verhofstadt suggests the prime minister was motivated by party political considerations rather than the national interest in calling a poll for 8 June. The former Belgian prime minister, who will play a key role in the coming Brexit negotiations, describes the election announced by May on Tuesday as “an attempted power grab by the Conservative party, who wish to take advantage of a Labour party seemingly in disarray to secure another five years of power, before the reality of Brexit bites”.
smudger wrote: ↑Wed May 03, 2017 9:00 pm
Barnier's statement today was pretty unequivocal!
Unequivocal it may have been been but it's coming to the start of negotiations and people should be under no illusions
that it will be a difficult process. However it is not really bullying, aggressive or threatening to state their position.
smudger wrote: ↑Wed May 03, 2017 9:00 pmMaybe you could enlighten us as to how caring, complicit, understanding, FAIR, JUST, LEGAL, friendly, ACCOUNTABLE the EU is??
I have not suggested that the EU meets any of the descriptions or not.
smudger wrote: ↑Wed May 03, 2017 9:00 pmI think the UK approach has to be an accountable justification for their demands, for demands is exactly what they are. Given that no accounts for the EU have ever been audited and signed off, the result should be interesting, to say the least,
Justification for the demands really and truly has to be proven. Given that demands have varied from 50b, 60b, 100b then justification really has to be forthcoming.
No demands are not what they are - the EU hasn't even provided a figure yet and the numbers bandied about are at this point speculation. They have certainly said that there will be a cost which will cover our commitments and that will be the first thing to be negotiated but there has been no figure given.
Thanks Royal for posting those examples but in fairness I couldn't say they were bullying, aggressive or threatening.
Are the comments for example any worse than David Davis when speaking about Guy Verhofstadt (who I don't particularly like) in the negotiations coming out with the line “Get thee behind me, Satan!”. Are the comments that we will simply walk away if we don't get the deal we want not threatening? etc
It's going to be a difficult process and cool heads will be required all round - it shouldn't be about personalities but about getting the best deal possible for all the citizens of the UK. No doubt much will be said over the coming months and some of it will clearly be annoying - I doubt however it will be one-sided.
Steve you are splitting so many hairs I can hardly believe its you posting! Shame on you!
"So it's not bullying, aggressive or threatening to state these position?????"
Steve, what planet are you on?? Every word that comes out from the EU is aggressive, threatening, or bullying!!! They are v clearly not in a position to negotiate, or make compromises. It's the EU or no way. How diplomatic or democratic is that?
And, given the non exixtence of any audited, signed off Accounts since it's inception, I see no substantiation of these figures without these Authorised Accounts. Massive strength for TM, not only on Brexit negotiations, but ALL OTHER MATTERS.
UK simply must not vote on the predictions of biased remainers.
