Are those opposed to Trump simply half-wits, fishwives?

[Jimgward]

Could you tell us how May and her lackeys are destroying it? Also, who is proposing getting rid of it?

You must be joking. NHS England is slowly being privatised by the back door. Companies like Virgin Healthcare and Atos are winning contracts monthly, for billions of pounds. Providers replaced with private companies. NHS England is deteriorating by the day.

It doesn't happen in Scotland as its a completely different structure. No privatisation of core medical services.

Hunt (c) is like an assassin, employed to do a specific task. All the time spreading platitudes, whils't loading bullets. 2020 will be the key date when the government will decide that the NHS cant work and needs radical change, that will involve paying for many services. Free at the point of delivery will disappear. It's already starting. Diabetics being told free test strips are disappearing.....

No JimG, I'm not joking. Now could you supply anything to back up your claims please?

I already have, what more do you want. I've given examples...

[Jimgym]

You must be joking. NHS England is slowly being privatised by the back door. Companies like Virgin Healthcare and Atos are winning contracts monthly, for billions of pounds. Providers replaced with private companies. NHS England is deteriorating by the day.

It doesn't happen in Scotland as its a completely different structure. No privatisation of core medical services.

Hunt (c) is like an assassin, employed to do a specific task. All the time spreading platitudes, whils't loading bullets. 2020 will be the key date when the government will decide that the NHS cant work and needs radical change, that will involve paying for many services. Free at the point of delivery will disappear. It's already starting. Diabetics being told free test strips are disappearing.....

No JimG, I'm not joking. Now could you supply anything to back up your claims please?

I already have, what more do you want. I've given examples...

No Jim, you haven't. However Ive realised it's pointless asking you.

[Jimgward]

Could you tell us how May and her lackeys are destroying it? Also, who is proposing getting rid of it?

You must be joking. NHS England is slowly being privatised by the back door. Companies like Virgin Healthcare and Atos are winning contracts monthly, for billions of pounds. Providers replaced with private companies. NHS England is deteriorating by the day.

It doesn't happen in Scotland as its a completely different structure. No privatisation of core medical services.

Hunt (c) is like an assassin, employed to do a specific task. All the time spreading platitudes, whils't loading bullets. 2020 will be the key date when the government will decide that the NHS cant work and needs radical change, that will involve paying for many services. Free at the point of delivery will disappear. It's already starting. Diabetics being told free test strips are disappearing.....

Wouldn't I be right in saying that Scotland and Wales (that have less privatisation than England) have worse health outcomes...?

And on the privatisation thing...

Most of the 'stuff' that the NHS uses, you know, MRI scanners, beds, bedpans, sheets, stethoscopes, heart monitors, drugs.... I'm sure you get the idea... Aren't they all made by private companies already...? So privatisation maybe isn't such a bad thing after all...? Many of the 'providers' are already private companies.

The problem with the NHS is that it is a monopoly that the great British public are forced to pay for under threat of imprisonment... I completely agree that turning a government run monopoly into a privately run one would be terrible...

But opening it up to privately run competition would surely be a good thing...?

Because many items and supplies are made by private companies [who else would make them?] that doesn't add a single thing to an argument on privatisation effected on the NHS. Does anyone expect the NHS to start making MRI scanners?

As to opening it up to competition? As I've said, that's already happening across problem will come when no one wants to bid to do mental health, dementia and other less profitable and glamorous aspects of health and care. Private companies need to take profit. The NHS providers don't. By all means, use private suppliers to assist the NHS in running the service, by creating better efficiencies etc. That's right and will happen more....

There's nothing wrong with private skills being used to assist public services. It's when the public services are replaced by private providers who profit by cutting services.

A private group was handed a hospital in Cambridgeshire to run and made a roaring failure. It's now back in public hands. That hospital had years of problems and the fix was never going to be easy. Just handing it lock, stock to a private company couldn't fix endemic problems.

I see performance measures made by patients. Overall, patients are delighted with medical services. Waiting times, peripheral services, admin and other aspects regularly get negative feedback and those aspects need improved. It won't happen overnight, particularly when real costs are increasing and real budgets decreasing due to increased pressure on services. Not by immigration, health tourism or other examples of propaganda.

[Jimgward]

A short video well worth a look, by `Dr Henry Marsh

https://youtu.be/zHm9LljMTwo

[Firefly]

Jimgward

In view of the fact that you will not/cannot substantiate your accusations, I take it that your post was purely fictional.

Jackie

[cyprusgrump]

You must be joking. NHS England is slowly being privatised by the back door. Companies like Virgin Healthcare and Atos are winning contracts monthly, for billions of pounds. Providers replaced with private companies. NHS England is deteriorating by the day.

It doesn't happen in Scotland as its a completely different structure. No privatisation of core medical services.

Hunt (c) is like an assassin, employed to do a specific task. All the time spreading platitudes, whils't loading bullets. 2020 will be the key date when the government will decide that the NHS cant work and needs radical change, that will involve paying for many services. Free at the point of delivery will disappear. It's already starting. Diabetics being told free test strips are disappearing.....

Wouldn't I be right in saying that Scotland and Wales (that have less privatisation than England) have worse health outcomes...?

And on the privatisation thing...

Most of the 'stuff' that the NHS uses, you know, MRI scanners, beds, bedpans, sheets, stethoscopes, heart monitors, drugs.... I'm sure you get the idea... Aren't they all made by private companies already...? So privatisation maybe isn't such a bad thing after all...? Many of the 'providers' are already private companies.

The problem with the NHS is that it is a monopoly that the great British public are forced to pay for under threat of imprisonment... I completely agree that turning a government run monopoly into a privately run one would be terrible...

But opening it up to privately run competition would surely be a good thing...?

Because many items and supplies are made by private companies [who else would make them?] that doesn't add a single thing to an argument on privatisation effected on the NHS. Does anyone expect the NHS to start making MRI scanners?

As to opening it up to competition? As I've said, that's already happening across problem will come when no one wants to bid to do mental health, dementia and other less profitable and glamorous aspects of health and care. Private companies need to take profit. The NHS providers don't. By all means, use private suppliers to assist the NHS in running the service, by creating better efficiencies etc. That's right and will happen more....

There's nothing wrong with private skills being used to assist public services. It's when the public services are replaced by private providers who profit by cutting services.

A private group was handed a hospital in Cambridgeshire to run and made a roaring failure. It's now back in public hands. That hospital had years of problems and the fix was never going to be easy. Just handing it lock, stock to a private company couldn't fix endemic problems.

I see performance measures made by patients. Overall, patients are delighted with medical services. Waiting times, peripheral services, admin and other aspects regularly get negative feedback and those aspects need improved. It won't happen overnight, particularly when real costs are increasing and real budgets decreasing due to increased pressure on services. Not by immigration, health tourism or other examples of propaganda.

So your solution is...?

[Jimgward]

Wouldn't I be right in saying that Scotland and Wales (that have less privatisation than England) have worse health outcomes...?

And on the privatisation thing...

Most of the 'stuff' that the NHS uses, you know, MRI scanners, beds, bedpans, sheets, stethoscopes, heart monitors, drugs.... I'm sure you get the idea... Aren't they all made by private companies already...? So privatisation maybe isn't such a bad thing after all...? Many of the 'providers' are already private companies.

The problem with the NHS is that it is a monopoly that the great British public are forced to pay for under threat of imprisonment... I completely agree that turning a government run monopoly into a privately run one would be terrible...

But opening it up to privately run competition would surely be a good thing...?

Because many items and supplies are made by private companies [who else would make them?] that doesn't add a single thing to an argument on privatisation effected on the NHS. Does anyone expect the NHS to start making MRI scanners?

As to opening it up to competition? As I've said, that's already happening across problem will come when no one wants to bid to do mental health, dementia and other less profitable and glamorous aspects of health and care. Private companies need to take profit. The NHS providers don't. By all means, use private suppliers to assist the NHS in running the service, by creating better efficiencies etc. That's right and will happen more....

There's nothing wrong with private skills being used to assist public services. It's when the public services are replaced by private providers who profit by cutting services.

A private group was handed a hospital in Cambridgeshire to run and made a roaring failure. It's now back in public hands. That hospital had years of problems and the fix was never going to be easy. Just handing it lock, stock to a private company couldn't fix endemic problems.

I see performance measures made by patients. Overall, patients are delighted with medical services. Waiting times, peripheral services, admin and other aspects regularly get negative feedback and those aspects need improved. It won't happen overnight, particularly when real costs are increasing and real budgets decreasing due to increased pressure on services. Not by immigration, health tourism or other examples of propaganda.

So your solution is...?

See the video I posted. I did that because I agree with it.

Properly fund the NHS and bring in `Change professionals to help it adapt and become more efficient.

[cyprusgrump]

Because many items and supplies are made by private companies [who else would make them?] that doesn't add a single thing to an argument on privatisation effected on the NHS. Does anyone expect the NHS to start making MRI scanners?

As to opening it up to competition? As I've said, that's already happening across problem will come when no one wants to bid to do mental health, dementia and other less profitable and glamorous aspects of health and care. Private companies need to take profit. The NHS providers don't. By all means, use private suppliers to assist the NHS in running the service, by creating better efficiencies etc. That's right and will happen more....

There's nothing wrong with private skills being used to assist public services. It's when the public services are replaced by private providers who profit by cutting services.

A private group was handed a hospital in Cambridgeshire to run and made a roaring failure. It's now back in public hands. That hospital had years of problems and the fix was never going to be easy. Just handing it lock, stock to a private company couldn't fix endemic problems.

I see performance measures made by patients. Overall, patients are delighted with medical services. Waiting times, peripheral services, admin and other aspects regularly get negative feedback and those aspects need improved. It won't happen overnight, particularly when real costs are increasing and real budgets decreasing due to increased pressure on services. Not by immigration, health tourism or other examples of propaganda.

So your solution is...?

See the video I posted. I did that because I agree with it.

Properly fund the NHS and bring in `Change professionals to help it adapt and become more efficient.

Ah, just more tax then...?

How much cash will make it 'properly funded' do you think...?

And how keen are the population to pay ever more tax...? Given that they already pay tax on income plus NI plus VAT plus fuel/booze/fags duty plus tax on electricity and council tax and road tax, vehicle duty and goodness knows how many other taxes which are at the end of the day just tax. Just funding bloated government and institutions like the NHS...

The Laffer Curve shows us that more tax is not the solution...

[Jimgward]

So your solution is...?

See the video I posted. I did that because I agree with it.

Properly fund the NHS and bring in `Change professionals to help it adapt and become more efficient.

Ah, just more tax then...?

How much cash will make it 'properly funded' do you think...?

And how keen are the population to pay ever more tax...? Given that they already pay tax on income plus NI plus VAT plus fuel/booze/fags duty plus tax on electricity and council tax and road tax, vehicle duty and goodness knows how many other taxes which are at the end of the day just tax. Just funding bloated government and institutions like the NHS...

The Laffer Curve shows us that more tax is not the solution...

Ok, grumpy, I'd assume you'd scrap the NHS as is, let private companies come in a rip the arse out of it?

Or, do you have the solution?
'Want to know my proper solution, scrap TRident and other government trinkets and put the money into the NHS. Why should we pay £3bn a year to extend the US nuclear capability, with a system only they can fire?

I'd also scrap the extra money to rebuild BUCKINHAM palace... properly tax the royals and most important, properly tax the large companies like Vodafone and others... easily raise enough money to properly fund a modern health and social care system. I'd also make patients self-aware of costs involved, so that they paid for non attendance and were made to work in partnership for wellness.

Many countries, like Canada, have better healthcare, as a tax when you're working and paid when you're not. There are easy solutions, if proper effort is made.

Won't suit the right wing who don't want any form of social spend. But hey, some things need fought for.

[smudger]

"I'd also scrap the extra money to rebuild BUCKINHAM palace... properly tax the royals......"

Buckingham Palace is owned by the state, not the Royal Family. Are you suggesting that the nation should simply ignore problems in ancient buildings and let them fall into disrepair and eventually ruin?

The Royal family all pay tax, as appropriate, so what's the problem?

[cyprusgrump]

Ok, grumpy, I'd assume you'd scrap the NHS as is, let private companies come in a rip the arse out of it?

Or, do you have the solution?

The key point is that the NHS in its current form is unsustainable. You can scrap Trident, HS2, increase taxes and goodness knows what else but it will never have enough money (smudger has corrected your misunderstanding re: The Royal Family).

I'm not sure why you think it is okay for the NHS to outsource their MRI requirements to private companies but are aghast at the thought of private companies being involved in the NHS...?

Many countries, like Canada, have better healthcare, as a tax when you're working and paid when you're not. There are easy solutions, if proper effort is made.

Won't suit the right wing who don't want any form of social spend. But hey, some things need fought for.

Um, not sure of the point you are attempting to make here...

... but 'social spend' is paid for by taxpayers just like the rest of the £120Bn NHS budget.

So given that taxpayers are going to pay for healthcare then the thing we want to do is get the best possible value for money for them. And a state run monopoly (or a monopoly of any sort) is simply not the way to do it...

[Firefly]

I rest my case !!

Jackie

[OhSusana]

As this seems to have gone really off topic, this from the bbc looks interesting with regard to Expats -

Retired British expats 'outstrip European pensioners using NHS'
http://www.bbc.com/news/38534958

While 70,000 retired Brits use Spain's health system, 81 Spanish pensioners are registered as covered by the NHS...