Viewpoint: UK will Exit EU with no deal

[PhotoLady]

It was a titanic decision....

[Firefly]

Jim

I don't believe anything the Government say, it's actions not words that matter.

What a waste of public money (yet again) to issue these papers, why I ask myself, another prod to the remainers to shout about another referendum, let's face it, Mrs May is bending over backwards to please the EU, not the people of Britain. The Government think that the public are sheep, well hello, we're not, seeing is believing.

Jackie

[Jim B]

Hello Jon, hope you are well.
I can only speak as I find but watching the newspaper reviews on TV most of the guests from the Times appear to be in favour of leaving especially the leader writer (sorry I can't recall his name but he looks about fifteen years old). The point being is that these papers were put together under the direction of David Davis (an arch Brexiteer) prior to him jumping ship. Whichever side you look at it from the whole situation is a mess

[Jimgward]

Jim

I don't believe anything the Government say, it's actions not words that matter.

What a waste of public money (yet again) to issue these papers, why I ask myself, another prod to the remainers to shout about another referendum, let's face it, Mrs May is bending over backwards to please the EU, not the people of Britain. The Government think that the public are sheep, well hello, we're not, seeing is believing.

Jackie

The government are doing this because most dissagreement is coming ingternally within the Conservative party, so dont blame the EU.

Democracy gave the refererendum, despite it being No.4 in the list of national priorities at the time. Cameron underestimated the Leave campaign strength and the funding and lies they could produce.

IF, the people demand a referendum on the outcome agreement, again that is Democracy and no-one can complain.

[Firefly]

If we have a referendum to see if we want a second EU referendum, THAT'S democracy.

What do you mean 'by the people' what people and how many ? Cameron also lied, they all do, and probably always will, nothing to choose between remain liars and leave liars.

I did not blame the EU, why you should think I did, I know not, and I still believe that the money spent on producing these papers would have been better spent elsewhere, God knows the NHS could use some.

Jackie

[Jimgward]

If we have a referendum to see if we want a second EU referendum, THAT'S democracy.

What do you mean 'by the people' what people and how many ? Cameron also lied, they all do, and probably always will, nothing to choose between remain liars and leave liars.

I did not blame the EU, why you should think I did, I know not, and I still believe that the money spent on producing these papers would have been better spent elsewhere, God knows the NHS could use some.

Jackie

We had the referendum without a referendum to see if we should have one.... we could continue ad finitum

You cannot deny that there looks like a very large swing and we will son know the potential outcome and this MAY mean that the populus demand a vote...

You have blamed the EU consistently... you accused May of trying to please the EU...
I agree money should be spent on the NHS - in fact, it would be nice of the £350m a week was given to the NHS - as we are saving that

I think you will find more lies from the Leave campaign.

[ApusApus]

.... we could continue ad finitum

You could & probably a lot of other people would ………… but when does it end? How many referendum or re-voting does it take before we get a decision that we all agree to follow in the name of democracy?


Shane

[Jim B]

I would suggest it was the right wing of the Tory party that demanded a referendum, most of the people were just trying to make ends meet due to the austerity measures and then saw it as an opportunity to stick it to the government of the day. Cameron had no need to go to the EU and demand a restriction on movement of EU citizens as he already had the means to do it so was just grandstanding when he returned stating he could not obtain an agreement.

Jim

[Jimgward]

Jim

I don't believe anything the Government say, it's actions not words that matter.

What a waste of public money (yet again) to issue these papers, why I ask myself, another prod to the remainers to shout about another referendum, let's face it, Mrs May is bending over backwards to please the EU, not the people of Britain. The Government think that the public are sheep, well hello, we're not, seeing is believing.

Jackie

The government are doing this because most dissagreement is coming ingternally within the Conservative party, so dont blame the EU.

Democracy gave the refererendum, despite it being No.4 in the list of national priorities at the time. Cameron underestimated the Leave campaign strength and the funding and lies they could produce.

IF, the people demand a referendum on the outcome agreement, again that is Democracy and no-one can complain.

What I find amusing Jim is that as a person of the people...when the people get it wrong...in your view...then their view is discounted...it was a referendum...not a series of referendums...the people demanded it...the Government gave it..the people voted to leave the EU...we are leaving...not hard really...

The people didnt demand it. It was No>.4 in people’s wants at that time, with Health, Policing and Education all higher,

Democracy means, IF the popular demand a referendum and it is SHOWN with extensive polls, to be the want of the largest percentile, then we should do that. Brexit is the biggest decision this country ever took under democracy. IF it looks to be wrong (and we don’t know yet) then it isn’t democratic to have no recourse.

Especially when the original vote should have had minimum criterion for a percentage and not just a majority (Scotland faced that for devolution)

[Jimgward]

Jim it was a Tory manifesto pledge to hold a referendum...a promise to the people..who in turn voted to leave.....nothing to do with "sticking it to the Government" Cameron tried and failed to achieve any reform of the EU...which may have turned the vote...the Eu technocrats in their arrogance simply did not believe the UK would vote to leave...it did and we will leave.....

It was also a manifesto pledge to;
Reduce immigration
Reduce the defecit and much more...,..

[Firefly]

Jimgward

Nice to know that's your name.

I have blamed the EU for all sorts of problems and still do, however, Mrs May needs to get on with the job instead of pandering to the EU, for a soft Brexit.

I do not accept that the majority want a second referendum, here in Herefordshire we have a body of Brexiteers who are pushing the Government to 'get on with it'. I wouldn't be surprised if more followed.


Jim B

The Tory party held the referendum, but the Labour party promised to have one, then changed their minds, or were they lying in the first place, who knows.

Jackie

[Jim B]

Firefly
Most probably lying like the majority of polititians.
Hereford has a smaller population (191,000) than most cities and towns in England and being predominantly agricultural will be one of the hardest hit counties when the EU subsidies are lost but as said that's what they voted for.
Jim

[Firefly]

Jim

Yes they did vote for it.

[tyelaw47]

No
May I suggest that perhaps you are regretting your decision not to vote and would like the opportunity to change that decision?

[Jim B]

Given an exchange rate last night of €1.06 off JJC when I paid the bill at a restaurant with my UK credit card (left my local one at home) so looks like the pound is going down the pan already and we've still got six months to go before Brexit day.


Jim

[Jim B]

tyelaw 47

It is really immaterial whether HIC voted or not; over three quarters of the 5.5 million plus British who live overseas were not allowed to vote due to the fifteen year rule and thousands who applied for a postal vote never received them, I was one of those.
Recently Russia had an election for their President and all Russians living in Cyprus voted at their Consulates located in all the major towns on the island and we criticise their democracy. To remove voting rights from people, many who still pay taxes in the UK and who are directly affected is not very democratic don't you think?

Below is an interesting link to a radio debate about WTO rules and what affect it will have on the UK; of course most leavers are in denial but I think the Trade Negotiator has a little more understanding of the dangers of a no-deal Brexit than the guy from Brexit Central.

https://soundcloud.com/bbcradio…/nodeal ... ed-debate‬

Jim

[tyelaw47]

I personally care not a fig whether or not HIC voted;in view of his post however I merely suggested that he might be regretting his decision not to vote.It was unfortunate you did not receive your voting paper's.I do know a few who did not but also many like me did.Perhaps those who did not left it rather late in the day to request them thereby not having sufficient time to chase up?
With regard to the British citizens not allowed to vote due to being out of the Country for more than 15 years,then I would suggest that this is one of the things that people consider before they make the decision to leave the Country.It has never been hidden and I would suggest that most have not complained when they could not vote in General Elections?
I don't know why the 15 year rule was first applied but would suggest that maybe people who have been living out of the UK for such a length of time maybe do not have the in-depth knowledge any more of what life is like living in the UK.Yes they can listen to the media or friends and relatives but they do not have first hand knowledge any more.
The suggestions re having a further referendum are ludicrous incorporating such wild ideas that 16 year olds should be allowed to vote,65+ year old should not,Ex Pats out of the Country for more than 15 years should - the list goes on and is just a desperate attempt to change BREXIT.
From my personal perspective I voted to remain in the EU but accepted the democratic decision to leave and must admit now to believing my initial decision was flawed and whilst I believe there is zero chance of a new referendum,if there was I would vote Leave.

[Jimgward]

Tyelaw I’d suggest you are the exception in voting remain and now wanting leave. I know there arse some (Hudswell) however, polls would suggest that the ones that matter, those residing in the U.K. (according to the government who barred many overseas voters) are now in favour of remaining and the movement to a second referendum on the agreement is looking more likely. Proper democracy.

This isn’t a case of keep having votes until it agrees with what you want. Far from it. This is a sensible suggestion to allow the people to take the biggest decision the country has ever democratically taken in its long history. By far. A decision with consequences for many decades and one that will affect the next generations more than the retiring present.

Who knows, the agreement may turn out to be good and the country endorsed it.

[tyelaw47]

I am not going to get in an argument about this - that is the trouble -too many people thinking they know best.
I will make two predictions though and shall say no more:-
*There will not be another referendum
* The outcome of Brexit will be a success after an initial short sticky period.
Feel free to get back to me in 2021 if I am wrong.

[Jimgward]

Well, since the chief politician pushing f0r a hard brexit is Rees-Mogg and even he says we will suffer for around 30 years and then see the benefit...