Are those opposed to Trump simply half-wits, fishwives?

[cyprusgrump]

See also:

11,000 lost lives from heart attacks due to poor NHS care

More than 1,500 heart attack victims are dying needlessly every year in Britain due to substandard care and delays in treatment, a study in the Lancet has found.
The research found that a failure to ensure patients in this country receive quick treatment and good aftercare has cost at least 11,000 lives in the last seven years, with death rates one third higher than elsewhere.
Cardiologists said the failure to follow national medical guidelines meant that not enough patients in this country were given balloon angioplasty or stent replacement to open narrowed arteries after a heart attack.
Patients also suffered worse outcomes in this country because not enough were given the right drugs to help them recover after leaving hospital, researchers from University College London found.
The study compared the survival of more than 500,000 heart attack victims treated at 242 hospitals in the UK and 86 hospitals in Sweden between 2004 and 2010.

Continues Page 95

[Jimgward]

See this PDF - http://www.commonwealthfund.org/~/media ... r_2014.pdf

Yes, that is the one...

As you can see from the two examples that I gave it is wide of the mark... Worst cancer outcomes, 23rd in the rankings, etc.

You only have to look at stuff you can see in the media on a daily basis to see how unrealistic it is...

NHS hospital waiting time figures worst in seven years

there is another interesting article here on the desperate state of the NHS...

It cannot by any measure have the 'highest ratings' as you (and that report obviously) claim...
[/quote]

You really are well named

Sorry, but this data is recognised as accurate across Europe and beyond....

[cyprusgrump]

You really are well named

Sorry, but this data is recognised as accurate across Europe and beyond....

Of course, of course...

Nothing to see here, move on, the NHS is the best in the world...

As long as you don't read the newspapers, search the Internet or speak to people that actually use it obviously...

[Rita Sherry]

PeteG Excellent post.

Rita

[Cogs123]

Well, that certainly sparked a lively response
It is time to have a cross party debate about the housing / NHS & Social Care crisis, mud slinging & the ' blame game ' isn't going to solve the problems, dragging up Labour leaders that haven't been in power for 10 / 7years is pretty pointless.
I would be quite happy to pay more tax to save the NHS as I'm sure the majority of British people would.
The same goes for the price of goods / services, in order for businesses to be able to pay a ' living wage ', but what do I know,
I'm not an economist, it is just my opinion

[geoffreys]

Well, that certainly sparked a lively response
It is time to have a cross party debate about the housing / NHS & Social Care crisis, mud slinging & the ' blame game ' isn't going to solve the problems, dragging up Labour leaders that haven't been in power for 10 / 7years is pretty pointless.
I would be quite happy to pay more tax to save the NHS as I'm sure the majority of British people would.
The same goes for the price of goods / services, in order for businesses to be able to pay a ' living wage ', but what do I know,
I'm not an economist, it is just my opinion

Sounds good on paper..
Geoff.

[cyprusgrump]

You really are well named

Sorry, but this data is recognised as accurate across Europe and beyond....

I hadn't realised it at the time but I inadvertently provided a link to an article earlier which debunks the very same report...

[Jimgym]

Deleted

[OhSusana]

In a slightly more humorous vein,

Mel Brooks: ‘Donald Trump doesn't scare me. He's a song-and-dance man'
https://www.theguardian.com/film/2017/f ... -dance-man

“The whole thing is crazy,” he says. “Trump was never a politician. He was never a senator. I don’t think he was ever president of his high-school class. And then he got himself elected president of the United States. He didn’t expect to win. He didn’t take it seriously. Three hundred million Americans didn’t take it seriously. Now they do.”

Not a bad quote from a 90-year-old. Super.

[Jimgward]

You really are well named

Sorry, but this data is recognised as accurate across Europe and beyond....

I hadn't realised it at the time but I inadvertently provided a link to an article earlier which debunks the very same report...

So, an international think tank is debunked by a single blogger, and you reference it

I work supplying the NHS. I'm in hospitals every week. I see inefficiencies and waste, problems and wrongs, every day. I also see the best.

The NHS has much to do, but it's the UK's jewel. Only idiots would propose getting rid of it.

Privatisation is coming in, big time. It's time every MP and Minister with links to private health companies, wore a badge to identify that in health debates.

Let's fix the system, rather than destroy it, as May and her lackeys are wont to do.

[Cogs123]

Well Said Jimgward

[cyprusgrump]

You really are well named

Sorry, but this data is recognised as accurate across Europe and beyond....

I hadn't realised it at the time but I inadvertently provided a link to an article earlier which debunks the very same report...

So, an international think tank is debunked by a single blogger, and you reference it

I work supplying the NHS. I'm in hospitals every week. I see inefficiencies and waste, problems and wrongs, every day. I also see the best.

The NHS has much to do, but it's the UK's jewel. Only idiots would propose getting rid of it.

Privatisation is coming in, big time. It's time every MP and Minister with links to private health companies, wore a badge to identify that in health debates.

Let's fix the system, rather than destroy it, as May and her lackeys are wont to do.

Point out the bits that Tim lists that are incorrect and we can discuss it... Calling people idiots without answering their points isn't really very grown up is it...?

While you are there, you can reply to my posts about heart attacks, cancer care and waiting times...?

Question: Do you really believe the NHS is the best in the world...?

[Pete G]

In 2014 the NHS carried out about 185,000 abortions.

The NHS are only allowed to fund abortions where there is serious risk to the health of the mother, the baby has a serious risk of being born handicapped, or a termination is the only way to prevent serious damage to the mental health of the mother.

Around 100,000 were performed to protect the physical health of the mother. Another 3000 were performed as the baby would have been severely disabled.

So you have to believe that either over 80,000 women were at serious risk of permanent mental health damage if they had been required to carry the baby to term, or the NHS have set the bar so low that the regulations are meaningless.

Don't know how you would sort that out empirically, but I know intuitively what I'd guess

[Jimgym]

You really are well named

Sorry, but this data is recognised as accurate across Europe and beyond....

I hadn't realised it at the time but I inadvertently provided a link to an article earlier which debunks the very same report...

So, an international think tank is debunked by a single blogger, and you reference it

I work supplying the NHS. I'm in hospitals every week. I see inefficiencies and waste, problems and wrongs, every day. I also see the best.

The NHS has much to do, but it's the UK's jewel. Only idiots would propose getting rid of it.

Privatisation is coming in, big time. It's time every MP and Minister with links to private health companies, wore a badge to identify that in health debates.

Let's fix the system, rather than destroy it, as May and her lackeys are wont to do.

Could you tell us how May and her lackeys are destroying it? Also, who is proposing getting rid of it?

[Firefly]

Jimgward

Could you perhaps give an idea of the inefficiencies and waste, problems and wrongs you see every day. Having being employed by the NHS for a number of years, I would like to be enlightened.

You work supplying the NHS, so do the manufacturers of paper towels.

Jackie

[Jimgward]

Jimgward

Could you perhaps give an idea of the inefficiencies and waste, problems and wrongs you see every day. Having being employed by the NHS for a number of years, I would like to be enlightened.

You work supplying the NHS, so do the manufacturers of paper towels.

Jackie

Very funny.... not.... you're barbs are noticed.... I suppose that's what you want...

[Jimgward]

I hadn't realised it at the time but I inadvertently provided a link to an article earlier which debunks the very same report...

So, an international think tank is debunked by a single blogger, and you reference it

I work supplying the NHS. I'm in hospitals every week. I see inefficiencies and waste, problems and wrongs, every day. I also see the best.

The NHS has much to do, but it's the UK's jewel. Only idiots would propose getting rid of it.

Privatisation is coming in, big time. It's time every MP and Minister with links to private health companies, wore a badge to identify that in health debates.

Let's fix the system, rather than destroy it, as May and her lackeys are wont to do.

Could you tell us how May and her lackeys are destroying it? Also, who is proposing getting rid of it?

You must be joking. NHS England is slowly being privatised by the back door. Companies like Virgin Healthcare and Atos are winning contracts monthly, for billions of pounds. Providers replaced with private companies. NHS England is deteriorating by the day.

It doesn't happen in Scotland as its a completely different structure. No privatisation of core medical services.

Hunt (c) is like an assassin, employed to do a specific task. All the time spreading platitudes, whils't loading bullets. 2020 will be the key date when the government will decide that the NHS cant work and needs radical change, that will involve paying for many services. Free at the point of delivery will disappear. It's already starting. Diabetics being told free test strips are disappearing.....

[cyprusgrump]

So, an international think tank is debunked by a single blogger, and you reference it

I work supplying the NHS. I'm in hospitals every week. I see inefficiencies and waste, problems and wrongs, every day. I also see the best.

The NHS has much to do, but it's the UK's jewel. Only idiots would propose getting rid of it.

Privatisation is coming in, big time. It's time every MP and Minister with links to private health companies, wore a badge to identify that in health debates.

Let's fix the system, rather than destroy it, as May and her lackeys are wont to do.

Could you tell us how May and her lackeys are destroying it? Also, who is proposing getting rid of it?

You must be joking. NHS England is slowly being privatised by the back door. Companies like Virgin Healthcare and Atos are winning contracts monthly, for billions of pounds. Providers replaced with private companies. NHS England is deteriorating by the day.

It doesn't happen in Scotland as its a completely different structure. No privatisation of core medical services.

Hunt (c) is like an assassin, employed to do a specific task. All the time spreading platitudes, whils't loading bullets. 2020 will be the key date when the government will decide that the NHS cant work and needs radical change, that will involve paying for many services. Free at the point of delivery will disappear. It's already starting. Diabetics being told free test strips are disappearing.....

Wouldn't I be right in saying that Scotland and Wales (that have less privatisation than England) have worse health outcomes...?

And on the privatisation thing...

Most of the 'stuff' that the NHS uses, you know, MRI scanners, beds, bedpans, sheets, stethoscopes, heart monitors, drugs.... I'm sure you get the idea... Aren't they all made by private companies already...? So privatisation maybe isn't such a bad thing after all...? Many of the 'providers' are already private companies.

The problem with the NHS is that it is a monopoly that the great British public are forced to pay for under threat of imprisonment... I completely agree that turning a government run monopoly into a privately run one would be terrible...

But opening it up to privately run competition would surely be a good thing...?

[Jimgym]

So, an international think tank is debunked by a single blogger, and you reference it

I work supplying the NHS. I'm in hospitals every week. I see inefficiencies and waste, problems and wrongs, every day. I also see the best.

The NHS has much to do, but it's the UK's jewel. Only idiots would propose getting rid of it.

Privatisation is coming in, big time. It's time every MP and Minister with links to private health companies, wore a badge to identify that in health debates.

Let's fix the system, rather than destroy it, as May and her lackeys are wont to do.

Could you tell us how May and her lackeys are destroying it? Also, who is proposing getting rid of it?

You must be joking. NHS England is slowly being privatised by the back door. Companies like Virgin Healthcare and Atos are winning contracts monthly, for billions of pounds. Providers replaced with private companies. NHS England is deteriorating by the day.

It doesn't happen in Scotland as its a completely different structure. No privatisation of core medical services.

Hunt (c) is like an assassin, employed to do a specific task. All the time spreading platitudes, whils't loading bullets. 2020 will be the key date when the government will decide that the NHS cant work and needs radical change, that will involve paying for many services. Free at the point of delivery will disappear. It's already starting. Diabetics being told free test strips are disappearing.....

No JimG, I'm not joking. Now could you supply anything to back up your claims please?

[Firefly]

Jimgward

You made sweeping statements about wastage, inefficiencies, problems and wrongs that you see every day in your capacity of a supplier to the NHS, I do think that in view of your post, and having perhaps had access to the internal workings of NHS hospitals, that you should explain exactly what you mean. I don't think that you can criticise the NHS, without backing it up. Without explanation your accusations mean nothing as I see it.

Jackie