Advice please. New laptop needed. What is best Apple Macbook or Apple MacBook Air, or a new Microsoft Laptop?

[PeteandSylvi]

Basically, people just love arguing about computers. Both the hardware and software. It will come as no surprise to all you non programmers out there, that exactly the same arguments exist when programming languages are discussed. But then, it is even pettier. One of the big arguments that has raged for decades is whether you should indent code with spaces or tabs.

People have even done studies to prove that people who indent with spaces get paid more. I kid you not.

When I was programming and punching my amendments onto punched cards with a hand punch there was no such thing as a tab!!! Now punched cards have gone as have all the programming languages I used or was associated with and all the computers (although there might be 1 or 2 in museums)!

Pete

[PaphosAL]

People have even done studies to prove that people who indent with spaces get paid more. I kid you not.

Dominic, I've done serious amounts of C++ cleanups and enhancements over the past 8 years, specifically, Commando (and Enigma) for DM500S and DM500C boxes under Linux, for telly and multimedia. The worst culprits for using spaces instead of tabs in the underlying code were the the Deutsch Tuxbox team.

Yes their C++ code looked nicely arranged and readable, but changing their spaces for tabs ususually shrank the build file to WAY less than it was before...

Maybe they got paid by filesize, rather than quality? Cheers- AL

[Dominic]

No it's is actually considered "best practices" to use spaces rather than tabs.

Mind you, best practices also veers away from big subroutines with huge indents anyway. These days we are told to strive for no more than two levels of indentation per subroutine. The focus is to get away from the bowl of spaghetti that most programs tend to become. Unfortunately, all they are doing is replacing it with a bowl of rice.

[J B]

Just a thought here, but does Win10 carry an option to use a Win7 GUI themed layout, I wonder?

If you mean the conventional style start menu then there are a number of add-ons to achieve this. I use Classic Shell by Ivosoft. From the myriad of options I use the Windows 7 Style.

Classic Shell for me too.

[PaphosAL]

Thanks Pete and J B

I'll have a play! Just a thought to share with you all, now. If you are on Win 7/8/10 32 bit OS and 4GB RAM, don't even think of upgrading the RAM please... As the OS will only ever see 3.4GB maximum!

To go higher in memory (such as 6 or 8GB), you MUST be on the 64 bit version of the OS, if your puter has this CPU!

Cheers- AL

[Royal]

Once upon a time, we used a BBC B Computer which could only interact with us via a command prompt and string code. Along came Apple in 1984 (yes - 1984) and the Mackintosh was born. It changed computing forever with its user friendly Graphical User Interface which made our documents look like sheets of paper and files look like..well, files! The Market was changed forever and Windows was quickly produced as a competitor to the Mac OS.

That's an interesting version, now let's pad it out a bit via Wiki: Windows 1.0 is a graphical personal computer operating environment developed by Microsoft. Microsoft had worked with Apple Computer to develop applications for Apple's January 1984 original Macintosh, the first mass-produced personal computer with a graphical user interface (GUI) that enabled users to see user friendly icons on screen. Windows 1.0 was released on November 20, 1985, as the first version of the Microsoft Windows line. It runs as a graphical, 16-bit multi-tasking shell on top of an existing MS-DOS installation. It provides an environment which can run graphical programs designed for Windows, as well as existing MS-DOS software. Its development was spearheaded by the company founder Bill Gates after he saw a demonstration of a similar software suite known as Visi On at COMDEX.

Pete,

You ‘padded it out a bit’ by a cut and paste from Wiki. Here's a cut and paste from Wikipedia:

Windows 1.x

The first independent version of Microsoft Windows, version 1.0, released on November 20, 1985, achieved little popularity. The project was briefly codenamed "Interface Manager" before the windowing system was developed - contrary to popular belief that it was the original name for Windows and Rowland Hanson, the head of marketing at Microsoft, convinced the company that the name Windows would be more appealing to customers.
Windows 1.0 was not a complete operating system, but rather an "operating environment" that extended MS-DOS, and shared the latter's inherent flaws and problems.

Microsoft had worked with Apple Computer to develop applications for Apple's new Macintosh computer, which featured a graphical user interface. As part of the related business negotiations, Microsoft had licensed certain aspects of the Macintosh user interface from Apple; in later litigation, a district court summarised these aspects as "screen displays". In the development of Windows 1.0, Microsoft intentionally limited its borrowing of certain GUI elements from the Macintosh user interface, to comply with its license. For example, windows were only displayed "tiled" on the screen; that is, they could not overlap or overlie one another.



Apple - cutting edge at the forefront of technology!

[PaphosAL]

all,this Microsoft Windows stuff sounds far too complicated for me!!

You are seriously NOT saying that your preferred Apple PC isn't avaialable without a 64 bit multi-Core CPU are you, Hudswell?

Quote John McEnroe at Wimbledon in the 70's: "You cannot be serious!"

[Royal]

Once upon a time all computers and peripherals were either battleship grey or boring beige. Along came Apple in 1998 and the iMac was born - a futuristic looking, aesthetically pleasing console in a translucent ‘Bondi Blue’ colour. The Market took a long time to catch up and make their equipment look anywhere near as good.

Absolutely true however the real reason for the look was that Apple could charge 3 times as much. No-one ever refused to buy a PC because of it's colour!

Well clearly all those who purchased the Bondi Blue iMac refused to buy a PC because of its colour - beige or grey…


Apple - cutting edge at the forefront of technology!

[Royal]

Once upon a time, there were MP3 players. I had one. It held 12 tracks - a full CDs worth! Along came Apple in 2001 and the iPod was born. It revolutionised the Market. Not only could it store 1,000 songs, but unlike any other MP3 player at the time, it was easy to search and play individual tracks immediately. Furthermore, it developed to play videos, read books and much much more. The Market followed suit in due course.

You had a low spec MP3 player because there were a multitude of them on the market some with much greater specs. The real reason Apple went this route was because MP3 and it's derivatives are open and available to developers. Apple's replacement was distinctly closed which meant they owned and could control the market at whatever price they chose.

My focus was not on the quantity of MP3s could be stored, but the fact that there was no MP3 player AT THAT TIME which allow the user to browse albums and to pick and choose which specific track to play with the ease of the Apple click wheel. Can you give me an example ( as you seem to suggest) that there was a serious contender which pre-dated the iPod with such technology?


Apple - cutting edge at the forefront of technology!

[PaphosAL]

Later, Compaq had it's D511S SFF in black, with a silver front panel. Used extensively by thousands of banks, businesses, schools, unis, etc. You could pick these marvelous quiet machines up on fleaBay for £35 with free P&P a few years ago...

Then along came the HP 8200 Elite SFF, which I recently bought on eBay for £99 - UPS delivered next day for free. Not looked back with this baby so far!

Cheers- AL

Edit: All in black, LOL!

[PeteandSylvi]

Once upon a time all computers and peripherals were either battleship grey or boring beige. Along came Apple in 1998 and the iMac was born - a futuristic looking, aesthetically pleasing console in a translucent ‘Bondi Blue’ colour. The Market took a long time to catch up and make their equipment look anywhere near as good.

Absolutely true however the real reason for the look was that Apple could charge 3 times as much. No-one ever refused to buy a PC because of it's colour!

Well clearly all those who purchased the Bondi Blue iMac refused to buy a PC because of its colour - beige or grey…

Your logic is impeccable. "Clearly" it wasn't the technical superiority you waffle about, or the incredible looks we keep hearing about or the fantastic reliability that goes on forever or the amazing software that does everything before you even knew you wanted to do it or the seamless connections that magically plug themselves in. No - it was the colour! Jobs blew it, the entire design team of Apple blew it, the marketing guys blew it. Instead of all this leading edge guff all they had to do was spray the box a different colour and the entire world would have moved to Apple. Windows machines wouldn't have sold in their multi-millions. Who'd have thought? The colour......

Pete

[PaphosAL]

Who remembers the PCs all lit up with blue internal LEDs? Like a disco, LOL!

As to case colour, you can always pop round to Screwfix or B&Q and buy a roll of masking tape plus a can of whatever colour paint spray you fancy for a few quid. Best done outside on a windless day, though, as (according to Edd China on 'Wheeler Dealers') the fumes from aerosol paint sprays are very toxic when done indoors!

Cheers- AL

[Dominic]

This made me laugh.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FhTr8rkDO1I

Gaming, especially these days, taxes rigs more most software.

Shame I am not much cop on them any more.

[PeteandSylvi]

.go on get out there live a little...try an Apple...

Here we go again. Vegetarians, Jehovah's Witnesses, ISIS and Apple Users.

Sad really,

Pete

[Royal]

.go on get out there live a little...try an Apple...

Here we go again. Vegetarians, Jehovah's Witnesses, ISIS and Apple Users.

Sad really,

Pete

Here's we go again. Cheap and (not so) cheerful PC Users - Applephobes without cause.

Sad really.

Don't knock it until you've tried it...

[josef k]

Of course, many people are frightened to move away from windows in case the sky falls in.

Strange, that's the perception I have of Apple users.... a case of, "well I've chucked all my eggs in one basket - how can I walk away now?"

I chose apple because it works, plug and play...no mucking about...

Linux is plug and play as well. None of that silly windows DLL file business for every peripheral you can think of. Just connect and use. And of course, Linux is free!

[PeteandSylvi]

.go on get out there live a little...try an Apple...

Here we go again. Vegetarians, Jehovah's Witnesses, ISIS and Apple Users.

Sad really,

Pete

Here's we go again. Cheap and (not so) cheerful PC Users - Applephobes without cause.

Sad really.

Don't knock it until you've tried it...

I've emphasised so many times that my beef is with the greed of Apple not their products. I don't try and convert Apple users because, as I said before, I don't give a hoot. It's always the Apple users that pipe up and want everyone else to convert.

This has now become so repetitive on this thread which has totally outlived it's usefulness, so time to bring it to a close as far as I'm concerned.

And that is what I'll do unless somebody comes up with a new interesting point of discussion.

Pete

[PaphosAL]

This topic now seems to be going around in circles.. Maybe the OP should have asked for recommendations on a replacement, rather than a NEW laptop in her first post?

Anyway, I already gave it my best shot on the first page of this topic, which was a refurbed Asus K50ij laptop... So I fully agree with josef here. This is what £99 buys:

Intel duo-core 2gHz 64 bit CPU
15.6" wide screen
320GB sata HDD
4GB RAM
DVDRW drive
4 USB2 ports
Wi-Fi
Built-in Webcam
Win10 Pro 64 bit (genuine COA)

When buying a s/h laptop, always assume that the battery is cream-crackered! You can buy a brand new 6 cell Li-ion 5200mAh battery for this laptop on fleaBay for less than £15 !!!

Then (as earlier suggested) install Ubuntu 16 DTS for FREE using its bootable LiveCD disc. Give Ubuntu 100GB of disc space (when asked), leaving the rest to Win10. Voilá! You now have a dual boot Ubuntu16 / Win10 system, where you can enjoy the best of both worlds, as the mood takes you!

Total outlay- roughly £115

Cheers- AL

You can lead a horse to water, but you cannot force it to drink...

[Dominic]

I'm more convinced than ever that Hudswell and Royal are one and the same person, maybe posting from different devices (so different IPs). Both live in or around Polis, both are obsessive about Apple, both are rabid Brexiteers and one joined PL within a day of the other

They wouldn't have different IP addresses if they posted from different devices in the same home. They would both have the public IP address of the router.

[Royal]

They wouldn't have different IP addresses if they posted from different devices in the same home. They would both have the public IP address of the router.

...except of course if we - I mean they - use a VPN to cover their tracks!