House Of Lords

[Mark]

Last nights programme on BBC 2 was very revealing.
It confirms that the Lords need even more reform, or possible eradication.

It clearly is one of the best retirement day centres in the UK, I was appalled at the silver service dining, fully subsidised and very pleasant wine to boot.

In my view a bunch of £300 per day freeloaders who contribute little or nothing to UK politics.

[Dominic]

The idea of a House Of Lords is very good. It can curb extremism to an extent, and temper the crazier notions of the commons with a bit of sanity.

But it's implementation is completely wrong. They should do away with all the perks and populate it with people of a sound mind who actually want to help.

[Mark]

Not sure it is a good idea, it is crazy that unelected peers can interfere with elected MP's making decisions for the good of the nation.
It was fine in the past when we doffed our caps to our so called betters!

[Dominic]

I don't buy the "unelected" angle. We don't elect doctors, teachers, lawyers, judges, members of the police force or army, and yet nobody complains about that. So what is the difference?

If we elected the Lords as well as the Commons, they would be the same as the Commons. The only way it would work, would be if only a proportion of them were voted in or out at each election, and that isn't that dissimilar to the current situation.

[Mark]

I don't buy the "unelected" angle. We don't elect doctors, teachers, lawyers, judges, members of the police force or army, and yet nobody complains about that. So what is the difference?

If we elected the Lords as well as the Commons, they would be the same as the Commons. The only way it would work, would be if only a proportion of them were voted in or out at each election, and that isn't that dissimilar to the current situation.

Good point Dominic, enough to make me go back to my original post, reform the lords.

Perhaps they should stand for re-election, and not stand in perpetuity as they currently do?

Either way, as things stand, the Lords is not fit for purpose.

[Mark]

Looks like the Government will suffer a Brexit defeat in the Lords.
Surely this will lead to much needed reform of this dinasaur

[Rita Sherry]

I considered the programme very good. It did explain not only what the Lords function is but what they cannot do. I think Mark you are not fully conversant with the duties of the Lords many of whose members are very experienced and knowledgeable and on the whole do a very good job. They can be relied on to scrutinise all the proposals of the Commons and, where applicable, send them back with suggestions for possible amendments. My own view is it was a backward step to abolish inherited Peers as they generally entered the Lords as Public Servants in an endeavour to do a Public Service without any particular Party Politic allegiance. Be careful what you wish for.

Rita

[Mark]

Thanks Rita

Your input and wisdom is always appreciated. My post (as many are) was tongue in cheek, in some ways to divert attention from all the posts on Trump, which Is getting a bit tedious.
However, the Government defeat may well unleash public anger, which may well signal reform.

[PhotoLady]

News article on that defeat in a few minutes ago from the BBC News website:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39133400

[Mark]

Thanks Julie

Petition to replace the Lords with an elected body now over 35,000 signatures, 1000 added since the lords voted.
Will get interesting.

[Mark]

Has just passed 36000

[Mark]

Sorry for being a bore, but petition now over 39,000 signatures, the people are speaking!

[Mark]

Now 40,000, is anyone awake. Or are you watching Benidorm????

[Pete G]

Haven't the Lords just voted to say they consider the rights of a non-UK passport holder temporarily living in the UK are paramount the rights of a UK passport holder temporarily living in another country?

Shows what they consider the intrinsic value of a UK Passport is.

As usual, Tebbit is the only one of the duffers making any sense, mind you that could be because he not one of the many collecting fat EU pensions that they only keep if they promise to put EU concerns above national one.

Shame we can't return to Tudor times, when members of the aristocracy under the thrall of a foreign potentate would lose their head in both a figurative and literal sense

[bromerzz]

And of course still well short of the 400,000 or so who polled for Trumps visit to the UK to proceed.

[Mark]

It demonstrates the current British obsession with US rather than UK politics.

This Brexit vote by the Lords is a step to far.

[Lynsab]

3 million EU citizens had come to the UK in good faith and contributed enormously to the country.

European nationals contribute so much in the UK, why think twice about protecting their rights should be no-brainer...

It's disgraceful people's lives are being used in this way...

As far as uk citizens in the eu are concerned each country in the EU has its own policies when it comes to non EU citizens. The EU is a not able to dictate what each country does with its non eu citizens...

I can't see why all citizens in situ already just aren't guaranteed their residency playing with people's lives is heartless.

There was some brilliant speeches supporting the right for EU nationals to remain, made me proud to be British again after all the mean brexit-speech we've been subjected to. Lord Tebbit asking the Lords why they were worrying about foreigners, came across as Lord Nasty of brexit...

Of course only the outcome has been headlined, but had you watched the debate in full on TV most people who stood up for the EU citizens in the UK also stood up for the rights of UK subjects in the EU. In fact many of the expat organizations that represent our people abroad support this action.

[Mark]

I watched a good chunk of the debate, and agree with much of what you say Lynn.

However, May intends to trigger Brexit on 13th March, that is the time for negotiation, not pre article 50.

[geoffreys]

I watched the Lords debate in full.
Whereas I fully agree that the rights of the 3 million EU Nationals now living/working in the UK should be protected, it is also
EQUALLY important that UK Nationals living/working in the EU are also protected.
Both these requirements should be met at the same time as a part of the Brexit negotiations; preferably an early part of those talks.
If the Lords amendment were to be passed by the House of Commons it would mean that the UK Nationals are being put at risk since there would be no guarantee that all 27 EU Members States would treat them equally.
The Labour Party, in a desperate move to try and regain popularity, might vote for the amendment putting UK Nationals and the
UK Govt in an impossible position.
In that event Mrs May could perhaps call a snap General Election - that would see Labour off for decades! But it would delay
the Brexit.
Geoff.

[Jim B]

There is no guarantee anyway that the 27 will agree with or without holding 3 million EU Citizens to ransom.

Jim