Brexit

[Jim B]

We keep getting rammed down our throats that it was a Democratic decision well Democratic decisions are not cast in stone and can be changed by using logical argument. As the people start realising the consequences of higher costs and restrictions on their lifestyles they will start to question whether they did the right thing by voting to leave, it's human nature.

[keving]

It is the big Unknown, many people voted out based on the wrong information, IE, the NHS would gain millions on money spent on the EU. Many unemployed/ low paid voted out purely because of their circumstances. The final result was a shock to me (and you by the sound of it) The face of politics will never be the same.
It will be interesting to see what happens this year with so many European countries going to the poles.

North or South?

[Wallace]

It is the big Unknown, many people voted out based on the wrong information, IE, the NHS would gain millions on money spent on the EU. Many unemployed/ low paid voted out purely because of their circumstances. The final result was a shock to me (and you by the sound of it) The face of politics will never be the same.
It will be interesting to see what happens this year with so many European countries going to the poles.

North or South?

The Boss is heading way south!
With you following.

[outasite]

I voted out because I voted in back in 1971. But I voted to join the European Economic Community which was going to allow duty free trade between member States. This was because I, like the rest of the voters, was fed nothing but lies by " The Right Honourable Members of Parliament". And I have regretted my decision ever since the day I thought this isn't the EEC I was promised.

[Dominic]

I voted out because I voted in back in 1971. But I voted to join the European Economic Community which was going to allow duty free trade between member States. This was because I, like the rest of the voters, was fed nothing but lies by " The Right Honourable Members of Parliament". And I have regretted my decision ever since the day I thought this isn't the EEC I was promised.

I can fully appreciate that logic.

[Jim B]

But you are quite happy to "Take back Control" and give the control back to the MP' s who lied to you in the first place; strange logic.

Jim

[keving]

Seems that outasite has incredible foresight ... worrying in 1971 about a referendum to take place in 1975

[Cogs123]

I agree Jim, Ted Heath lied to get us in & the Brexiteers lied to get us out...though I too believe it is the worst decision the British public have ever made the Government will be held accountable...there is no hiding place these days, they will no longer be able to blame the EU for their own stupidity when the policies they enforce don't work.

[Jimgym]

Seems that outasite has incredible foresight ... worrying in 1971 about a referendum to take place in 1975

[Jimgym]

Cogs, can you do me a favour, please? Your lady with umbrella is massive, is there any way to make it smaller?
In reply to your comment, how do you know their policies aren't going to work?

[Cogs123]

Hi Jimgym,
Sorry.....I'll try, I'm not very techie but I'll do my best.

As to the policies, it will be inevitable that a proportion they bring in will be questionable, history has taught us that much,
The EU was a safety net that could be used as an excuse for those failures, now they are going to have to shoulder the burden themselves.

[Jimgym]

Nothing wrong with shouldering the burden. Perhaps they will be more careful and have better thought out plans without the benefit of blaming the EU? as so many people have said, nobody really knows exactly how Britain will fare in the next few years. Some seek to only focus on the bad news and criticise the Govt. any time they can, others are blue skies thinkers. me, I'm somewhere in between!

[Jim B]

I've worked in industry all my working life both before joining the EU and the years after. Most of the great benefits I've personally seen towards improving work and safety standards have been forced into UK legislation by the EU; would they have been introduced, most probably but there would have been years of strikes to reach were the UK is today. UK management (In general) have never given their employees anything without a fight; we as a workforce gained more in the 40 years in the EU than we ever gained prior to joining.

Jim

[geoffreys]

I've worked in industry all my working life both before joining the EU and the years after. Most of the great benefits I've personally seen towards improving work and safety standards have been forced into UK legislation by the EU; would they have been introduced, most probably but there would have been years of strikes to reach were the UK is today. UK management (In general) have never given their employees anything without a fight; we as a workforce gained more in the 40 years in the EU than we ever gained prior to joining.

Jim

This is true. But no justification for UK staying a Member of the EU.
Too much bullsh*t and cost involved, not to mention loss of sovereignty and control of the UK borders.
Geoff.

[keving]

I've worked in industry all my working life both before joining the EU and the years after. Most of the great benefits I've personally seen towards improving work and safety standards have been forced into UK legislation by the EU; would they have been introduced, most probably but there would have been years of strikes to reach were the UK is today. UK management (In general) have never given their employees anything without a fight; we as a workforce gained more in the 40 years in the EU than we ever gained prior to joining.

Jim

This is true. But no justification for UK staying a Member of the EU.
Too much bullsh*t and cost involved, not to mention loss of sovereignty and control of the UK borders.
Geoff.

Geoff, how have you been personally affected by this so called "loss of sovereignty". I can't think of a single area where I have personally been negatively affected.

On the subject of "control of UK borders" how many fewer migrants pa from the EU do you expect to see after Brexit?

[outasite]

Seems that outasite has incredible foresight ... worrying in 1971 about a referendum to take place in 1975

I was talking about the 1971 vote to JOIN the EEC, which we did in 1973. I was not talking about the farce and lies of 1975 that the referendum covered whereby we were asked if we wanted to stay in.

[geoffreys]

I've worked in industry all my working life both before joining the EU and the years after. Most of the great benefits I've personally seen towards improving work and safety standards have been forced into UK legislation by the EU; would they have been introduced, most probably but there would have been years of strikes to reach were the UK is today. UK management (In general) have never given their employees anything without a fight; we as a workforce gained more in the 40 years in the EU than we ever gained prior to joining.

Jim

This is true. But no justification for UK staying a Member of the EU.
Too much bullsh*t and cost involved, not to mention loss of sovereignty and control of the UK borders.
Geoff.

Geoff, how have you been personally affected by this so called "loss of sovereignty". I can't think of a single area where I have personally been negatively affected.

On the subject of "control of UK borders" how many fewer migrants pa from the EU do you expect to see after Brexit?

Everyone in UK has been adversely affected, not me personally as I left UK 14 years ago. But my family has been
so affected both education wise and health wise. I have mentioned these before on other threads/forums. I can
repeat if you insist.
Fewer immigrants - yes, just the ones we need and under strict conditions, and I personally would not grant anyone
permanent residency from now on. Those in UK already can stay. After Brexit I would suggest somewhere between 5 and 9 thousand per annum.
Geoff
UKIP Member

[keving]

Geoff, you can't say that "everyone" in the UK has been affected, as "every one" would, by definition include me, and I have told you that I have not been negatively affected. I note that you have extrapolated from your family to the whole of the UK. That's a bit of a leap of faith even given the most rigorous statistical analysis!

OK, great. I take it that 5,000-9,000 EU immigrants pa would be a good target for the Government to aim for? The government does need to publicise its targets does it not, so that they can be held to account?

[Jim B]

My family and myself have only gained from the EU as has the area I used to live in. My kids were born after joining and we had no problems with schools or receiving medical treatment and the care my first wife received until she died was very good as well. Most of the problems as I understand it are more down to lack of investment rather than an influx of immigrants. I keep getting told the UK is the fifth richest country in the world; well if that's true why don't they spend some of the money they stashed away.

Jim

[Jimgward]

I still fail to understand fully, what those who voted for Brexit, really expect now...

I believe many voted because they believed the EU was a "States of Europe" overhead that they did not want, I.e. Overly burdened with administration, laws, rules and that it restricted the Uk in some ways (that I don't know) Although, it is easy for many to believe that, I work with foreign companies and it is currently very easy because of EU rules, and will inevitably become harder.

Many believed that the UK was much better before we joined the EU (and I cannot get that one at all)

Many voted because of Immigrattion as they felt it was out of control. Some, not all, of those were bigoted and badly tarred many others as a consequence. UKIP and others didn't help there. The reality is now, that due to world problems and economic migration, we will always have large numbers of immigrants and migrants.

Some voted as they believed we paid too much to support others. £350m was the headline figure, that we would spend on the NHS (that was a lie. We spent around half that and there was no way it would go to the NHS - do those voters feel betrayed?)

Some believed in this 'sovereignty' issue. We should rule ourselves and answer to no-one. I understand that concept, but I also believe its outdated.

I don't know why others voted to Brexit. Perhaps some will tell me.

I know we are now going there and accept that. However, I want some transparency over what the consequences really are.