So, the DUP suddenly becomes the most powerful party in present Europe

[outasite]

...the border issue is not impossible to solve, between Eire and the U.K... but it is being used cynically as a bargaining chip by the EU....

Not so, it is Ireland who is saying they will not accept a hard border between it and Northern Ireland. Of course the EU backs Ireland's position, as it has said it would all along. Quite right too.

I pointed out months ago that the Irish border issue was likely to present almost insurmountable differences, but that observation passed right over the Brexiteer airheads, as they choose to ignore the realities of life and prefer instead to believe that everything will be 'alright on the night'

Getting a tad sick of you insinuating those who voted leave are airheads. In fact not a tad sick but totally fed up with your comments. I voted out and am totally unsurprised that your beloved European Union is showing itself to be a bullying, blackmailing, greedy entity, and you are welcome to it. Your EU is in my opinion putting the UK, one of the LARGEST contributors to the bottomless pit of money your EU needs, into an impossible situation to show the poorer states what they can expect from this unelected entity if they democratically vote to leave. Juncker and Merkel are two absolute nasties who are pulling the strings of the EU negotiating team and they will stop at nothing to humiliate my country. But you rock on with your snide comments and will no doubt continue to gleefully spout your insults.

[Uncle D]

...the border issue is not impossible to solve, between Eire and the U.K... but it is being used cynically as a bargaining chip by the EU....

Not so, it is Ireland who is saying they will not accept a hard border between it and Northern Ireland. Of course the EU backs Ireland's position, as it has said it would all along. Quite right too.

I pointed out months ago that the Irish border issue was likely to present almost insurmountable differences, but that observation passed right over the Brexiteer airheads, as they choose to ignore the realities of life and prefer instead to believe that everything will be 'alright on the night'

Getting a tad sick of you insinuating those who voted leave are airheads. In fact not a tad sick but totally fed up with your comments. I voted out and am totally unsurprised that your beloved European Union is showing itself to be a bullying, blackmailing, greedy entity, and you are welcome to it. Your EU is in my opinion putting the UK, one of the LARGEST contributors to the bottomless pit of money your EU needs, into an impossible situation to show the poorer states what they can expect from this unelected entity if they democratically vote to leave. Juncker and Merkel are two absolute nasties who are pulling the strings of the EU negotiating team and they will stop at nothing to humiliate my country. But you rock on with your snide comments and will no doubt continue to gleefully spout your insults.

The UK is run by a divided party with a weak leader, you cant blame the EU for exploiting this. If you voted Conservative and Brexit then we ALL will
reap what was sowed.

[PhotoLady]

Jeba, yes - that is correct.

[Jimgward]

It is indeed true that we find ourselves in a desert of politicians, with no strong leaders, no characters and no strength in any party.

Sadly, we are going through probably our most troublesome period of the past 50 years. We are not yet out of a recession, mounting deficits and debts and now brexit. May is not doing a good job, I think nobody on here would say she was. Davis looks like he would jump out of his role at the drop of a hat. Green needs fired. Gove and Johnson need fired. Hammond is weak. Rees-Mog is a throwback to the victorian era ...

And now to cap it all, we have the DUP of all parties, dictating negotiations...

Lord help us all...

[Jimgward]

Actually, TD, my first line says "no characters or strength in any party" - I agree labour is as bad as the Tories and the LibDems a shadow.... We have a complete dearth of strong and clever politicians. We also need them on all sides, as opposition is a throttle on extreme change.

[Varky]

If our are being derogatory, then I dont know what to say to you,.,.,.,

No I wasn't. Just trying to be realistic.

[Varky]

If the EU continues to insist that Eire has the veto on any border arrangements between Eire and the UK (NI) then things are going to go nowhere.

Is there even some leeway? Doesn´t each member state have the right to veto an agreement?

As far as I am aware each country and the European parliament have the right of veto on the final agreement. If agreement is reached between UK and EU negotiators then for an individual government or EU parliament to veto that agreement surely would throw the whole shebang into chaos and would probably lead to the 'hard brexit' which is of no real use to either party.

[Firefly]

If Cameron had not cut and run as soon as Brexit was voted for by the majority, ( he was the one who would trigger article 50 immediately ). If he had the character to stand an fight for us in our negotiations, we might not be in the fix that we are now. I agree Mrs May is weak, but that's what we were left with by spineless Cameron. As has been said God help us, because it seems no-one else will.

Jackie

[outasite]

I agree totally with comments about the weakness of the UK government. I think it sad that Conservative rebels, Corbyn's Labour Party, Sturgeons SNP and the rest cannot stand behind the PM and the UK negotiating team and to get the best for our country, not best for them. However I stand by my post about HappyinCyprus and his constant snide remarks about those who voted leave. I am not ignorant, I am not an airhead, I give not a fig for immigration so long as those who come into my country expect nothing unless they put in, and I definitely did not vote out because an ex Eton blond fool told me by bus advert that the NHS would get 350 million a week if we voted leave. I voted out because I voted in, in 1971, and as far as I am concerned politicians of all beliefs and ilks not only in the UK but across the six other countries that we joined, lied, lied and lied again to the people about the ultimate transfiguration of the European Economic Community into the bullying, blackmailing entity I believe it has morphed into.
In my opinion Brexit will be a total damp squib now, as there are far far too many people (politicians) who all have an agenda and not one of those politicians have any regard for the democratic vote of the United Kingdom.
The European Union is blackmailing the weak Mrs May and Co into parting with £50 billion (if the figures are to be believed) of which every single penny will be paid by the UK tax payers, even though there is absolutely no legal reason for this demand or payment other than the amount agreed by the UK in the last EU "Budget" agreement in 2013.
People keep going on and on about getting a second referendum.I thought the triggering of Article 50 was a final irreversible step. I may be wrong on that because the toad Blair seems to think that it is possible. I also think Article 50 should have been triggered immediately, instead of Court cases trying to reverse the democratic will whittling away.
I really cannot see a problem with Northern Ireland and Eire. Neither country wants a hard border, so don't flaming have one. An easy solution if politicians and their agendas were not involved.
Juncker, Merkel and to a certain extent the French President are running the EU negotiations through their puppets and they are 1....running scared at the loss of all that lovely money we give them, and 2....showing the other Member States what to expect if they ever decide to leave.
But above all HiC will continue crowing that I and 17.4 million voters are a bunch of airheads. A person who didn't bother to vote yet has been having a pop since June 2016.

[wilky]

If the DUP had not pulled the plug would the SNP and the Welsh Plaid Cymru not have been right to have been treated the same which would lead to a breakup of the union,therefore the DUP have saved the
United Kingdom.
Wilky

[Jimgward]

Why, with failing negotiations due to ill thought out strategies, lack of planning and basically stupid negotiating strategies, do we just blame the other side?

If Labour was in power, I’d bet every single Brexiteer on here, would blame the Labour Party for the failing. 100% sure of that.

So why are the Tories and May not the primary source of ridicule and blame? I’ll suppose bigoted party loyalties only.

[Firefly]

Jim

See my post of 6th.

Jackie

[Jimgward]

I had to include this.....

[Cogs123]

They might be the largest party in NI, ( by a very small margin ), but they DO NOT represent the majorty view.

[Poppy]

How very sad you are if something so blatantly discriminatory makes you happy. It is not funny it is sick!

[Rita Sherry]

Even the DUP couldn't save May yesterday, when her own MPs voted against her. Another humiliating failure in a litany of failures on the shambolic route to Brexit.

So Lloyd your Christmas has come early. Watching the debate last evening I dont recall "her own MPs voting against her" in their totality.

Nevertheless I wish you and yours a Happy Christmas and a Healthy, Peaceful and Prosperous New Year.

Rita

[Jimgward]

Last night was proper democracy taking place. Parliament are elected to represent our views and if some Tory MPs considered it so important to rebel, to ensure Parliaments ultimate endorsement or otherwise of a deal, then that's proper. It was pretty much promised before. I am sure most don't fully feel comfortable with May's brexit negotiations thus far and the potential to harm the country is very much there.

[Jimgym]

Last night was proper democracy taking place. Parliament are elected to represent our views and if some Tory MPs considered it so important to rebel, to ensure Parliaments ultimate endorsement or otherwise of a deal, then that's proper. It was pretty much promised before. I am sure most don't fully feel comfortable with May's brexit negotiations thus far and the potential to harm the country is very much there.

So what is improper democracy? The EU telling people what to do without a vote? Wa the referendum not 'proper democracy'? Or, is it only proper when it suits your viewpoint?

[Jimgward]

The referendum was poorly designed and constructed... however the result was democracy, but that doesn’t mean no safeguards would be put in place.

Trump was democratically elected, but I’m sure if he wasn’t controlled, some bombs would be falling on North Korea.

Parliament is there to control government. Certain matters, like Brexit, are important enough that they need to be a final check of the proper decisions. They cant stop it, but can try to influence its eventual agreement.

The referendum was a single question and no parameters were in place to direct the agreement that would be reached or the terms. Parliament is therefore needed on behalf of us, to run the rule over the agreement. It now pressurise May and David to make a deal that will be generally apporved - as they know the consequences of not.

Your last remark is rather scathing. I made no such assertions.

[Jimgym]

My last remark was anything but scathing , it was a question hence the”?” at the end. Democracy is just that, irrespective of the form it takes.