Engineers

[Jimgward]

I have a degree in Engineering, but never practiced as an engineer, so I would never call myself an engineer....

[ast]

Fully Agree Lloyd, i have always found the best attribute for anyone i have worked with is common sense, i am a time served City and Guilds electrician but does that make me a technician or Engineer or neither, to be honest i dont care as i know my capabilities and hopefully shows in my work.
I know of many qualified Engineers on paper that i would not have in the work place, Just my opinion.

[smudger]

Afraid Im with Devil on this one.

Lost count of the number of times I've heard people who are not even bookkeepers calling themselves accountants. This isn't just pompously defining ourselves as anything, but having done the time and the graft in qualifying have earned the right to the appropriate title.

Those who simply crunch numbers are just that, not accountants. In my managerial accounting life I've been responsible for numerous other roles from cleaning supervisor to deputy GM, but I always defined my main role as 'Accountant', which it was.

I worked damned hard for that qualification, as I'm sure Devil did for his, and see no reason why some basic clerk adding up columns on an adding machine (now there's a blast from the past!) should grandly call themselves an accountant when they haven't a clue about the difference between a balance sheet and a profit and loss account.

[mikesjn]

I have a degree in Engineering, but never practiced as an engineer, so I would never call myself an engineer....

Take my long departed father in law, he was effectively indentured into the Royal Navy, apprenticed for 6 years and became a Chief Petty Officer, he was an electrical engineer, no degree, can't give them to highly trained professionals that have served their country, can we? He was also a skilled machinist and was cross trained in many similar disciplines. The idea being that although his speciality was actually weapons/ guidance systems, he could make parts if resupply couldn't be made (He didn't buy spares for his car, he made most of them. )or he could take over roles from injured or incapacitated colleagues. He did do redesign, what works on a drawing board in a comfy office, might not be such a good idea with servicemen on a rolling warship. He also worked on refits and commissioning in the dockyards. In civilian life he worked all over the world. He did extensive work in the Korean shipyards, Here in the UK, BAE or whatever they were before wouldn't employ him at the same grade, no degree. Though he did get the odd job, that cost them a fortune at daily rate, rejigging the experts innovative, if less than functional ideas into ones that worked. Was he an engineer?

[PaphosAL]

Mikesjn, your father-in-law was a rank or two above engineer grade, in my honest opinion, despite his lack of a uni degree for engineer status. Thinker, innovator, get it solved and working. All under arduous and pressurized and time constricted conditions..

That's how the military works. Just a shame that they don't award a well-deserved degree upon demob. AL

[robf]

There are areas of engineering where you do need to differentiate between a fully qualified chartered status engineer and say a HNC qualified. For example you can buy structural design packages off the shelf that any HNC qualified designer can use, but the design calcs within the software have to be approved and signed off by a fully qualified structural engineer, it is a legal requirement. This will apply to most of the homes that you are living in (earthquake resistance). When things do go wrong it is invariably because the original engineers designs have been modified (sometimes by unqualified accountants ).

[DavidatLWH]

I have a degree in Engineering, but never practiced as an engineer, so I would never call myself an engineer....

Was he an engineer?

Yes, he was an engineer.

But not an Engineer.

[Firefly]

My Son's an Engineer, a Royal Engineer, two years at Military College. He has since gained a degree in Engineering, but he was always an 'Engineer'.

Jackie

[beachcaster]

As a fully qualified carpenter and joiner with city and guilds of London Institute recognition (1969), I have never been described as pompous. I think that remark unnecessary.
I have been called a chippy but after all these years I still cannot produce a good tempura.
Regards....Alan

[oylero]

An engineer needs an engine. If there's no engine involved he/she is not an engineer. Simples.

[mikesjn]

I am not being obtuse, we train people to a very high level in the services, he was not servicing paddle boats on a park pond, these were some of the most advanced sea going craft of the era. The Royal Navy could not find someone and be trusted to assess his level of qualification? It might not be fully compliant with a civilian degree, I have not got a clue, but not only would it have been in his interest, it would have been in the interest of the country to make sure that he complied with them or could easily convert. I hope things have changed, because if we train very high grade technicians and then treat them like chumps, it is us that are fools. I would have quite liked to see my father in law do a full engineering degree. Apart from most of it in boredom and frustration, I wonder how long the lecturers would have taken to have a breakdown, he engaged everybody with what he did, in just the same way that Fred Dibnah did. It was our loss, I mean as a country. We treated him like a twit, South Korea treated him like a very highly trained, experienced person and rewarded him for it. He got to see the world, also worked in Saudi, he hated that, wouldn't go back because of the way the third world workers were treated, he apparently drove the Saudi bosses nuts as the workers addressed him as mister and sir, he returned the compliment. He did contracts all over the world and a few in the UK, he stopped working for the year when his company was about to hit the VAT threshold and went to visit his sisters in Australia until his new tax year, so he had a great life. We trained him, everyone else got the benefit of that training, I have had a very successful business, sounds completely nuts to me, What do you think HIC? train someone and then give them to your competitors. Actually force them to work for your competitors.
As a side note, my wife is miffed about one thing. By the time he died he had spent many years refining the perfect chicken curry pie recipe and it got lost.

[Dominic]

My Dad used to design satellites for the MOD. He even had a stint at the M.I.T as a guest lecturer. He didn't have a degree, he was trained in house by the RAF. He retired as a Wing Commander so must have been good at his job.

Whereas I have a degree in Biochemistry.

[mikesjn]

Funnily enough I worked in IT for 20 years, I also did quite a lot in the smaller research companies in Cambridge, I was sys admin, though I had done lots of work for outsourcing companies, networking, security etc. The best programmer I ever met was a guy with a degree in .... Philosophy, he was just a natural. My friend who used to do my books, used to run his own weekend book keeping company, he was head of IT for one of the mid sized construction groups during the week, but incredibly hands on, despite a team of 20 working for him. They made him redundant as he didn't want to relocate, a month later they had to double his salary, give him a company car and a housing allowance to buy another house for the week days, he said I kept adding things to put them off and they kept agreeing. He was an MD. His father had been a surgeon and forced him to go into the family business, he decided he hated it. He was such an interesting man to talk to, but to describe him, he always wore pressed brown trousers, sandals and white socks, winter or summer and a beige short sleeve shirt, tie for business. His hobby, playing darts at his local. Takes all sorts.

[Richard Dastard-Lee]

A colleague of mine always maintained that in the UK the term 'Engineer' is associated with the 'oily rag trades' whereas in countries such as Germany and Japan the Engineer is afforded the same sort of respect as that given to professions such as Doctors. He also believed that as a consequence engineers were better paid in those countries. He himself left the UK to work in Germany until his retirement. He was, like myself, a metallurgist/materials engineer and a chartered engineer in the aerospace industry.

[Firefly]

DDL

You are right, the best trained and the worst paid, only in the UK !

Jackie

[Jimgward]

Britain was once proud to be the worlds leading engineering country, famed for so much innovation. Look at he inventions from Scotland alone...

However, we went through the phase in the 79’s and 80’s of decrying manufacturing and closing and selling. Thatcher being a large part of that with her hatred of the manufacturing industries loosely based on anti-union but not realising lack of investment, terrible conditions and poor pay had bred the too-strong unions.

[ApusApus]

Rubbish .............. can't you remember British Leyland, one of those famed, innovative companies around at that time where shop stewards ruled?


Shane

[Jimgward]

Rubbish .............. can't you remember British Leyland, one of those famed, innovative companies around at that time where shop stewards ruled?


Shane

Expected nothing more from you.... If you remove yer blue tints for a minute, British Leyland was a classic example of a badly run company, that had allowed all I said... Their cars became crap.... Faults everywhere...

Britain went through decades where no investment in manufacturing and working practices,were made, to improve. At the same time BMW were having more problems, but solved them not by closing.... Britain became embarrassed by manufacturing with unions a part of the problem, but as much a symptom as a cause,.... At one time Britain made over 50% of the ships in the world, many of the engines, planes, trains, cars and much more.... heartbreaking that we then moved to scorn manufacturing and working in the oil trades. Schools even moved to remove skills training and force academia on everyone.

[71 Trans Am]

I remember those days well – I used to work in one of those companies – The nightshift clocked on at 9.00pm and immediately switched on their portable tv’s to watch until the test card came on and then slept right through til 6.00am when they got up just in time for the day shift starting at 7.30am – The shop steward would have everyone down tools at least once a week. Looking back now it was just for trivial things just to show the management who was in charge – Happy Days.

[Devil]

Britain went through decades where no investment in manufacrturing and working practices were made to improve. At the same time BMW were having more problems, but solved them not by closing.... Britain became embarrassed by manufacturing with unions a part of the problem, but as much a symptom as a cause,....

Not to mention the Rootes Group. At one time, Hillman Minx was considered the better-class run-of-the-mill model, Singer being the up-market version. Sunbeam was a noted people's sports car which did well in rallies and hill-climbs and Humber was the limousine (you saw only them in Downing Street). Then came along the Hillman Imp, designed unsuccessfully to rival the Mini, built in Scotland in a computerised factory which was a catastrophe because of the unskilled workforce from the Clyde shipbuilders. It was such a big money-loser that rusted almost before it left the factory and the Rootes Group had to sell out to Chrysler who eventually closed it down.