Whatever your political persuasion, defend your corner here. All we ask is that you voice YOUR opinion, rather than just post a link to a half-hour youtube video. Politics can get a bit lively, and if you prefer a less combative debate, please post in the Politics for Moderates section instead.
Dominic wrote: ↑Tue Aug 29, 2017 12:32 pm
Ah but I wasn't talking about what HiC posted. I was talking about Poppy.
i think that Poppy has adequately answered that for herself.
HIC had crowed about the lack of Brexit good news and challenged Brexiteers to "give just one.."
The responses were fairly immediate but were met with silence from his trench until the next bad news when he predictably put his head above the parapet again, ignoring in the meantime the evidence set before him!
No she hasn't. She referred to her responses to HiC, but I was referring to the threads she had started like these, in the Politics forum:
Is this the EU remainers still want to be a part of?
EU facing serious problems it seems
They are just the other side of the coin.
Web Designer / Developer. Currently working on Paphos Life.
Living in Polemi, Cyprus with my wife and daughter.
Dominic wrote: ↑Tue Aug 29, 2017 1:04 pm
...I was referring to the threads she had started like these, in the Politics forum:
Is this the EU remainers still want to be a part of?
EU facing serious problems it seems
They are just the other side of the coin.
Forgive me if I appear to be stupid, but I really have no idea what you're getting at.
Poppy is as entitled to start threads as anyone else, of course.
As someone who also believes, like Poppy that the EU is a non democratic, flawed organisation which has an agenda of political union rather than as a simple trading bloc, you appear to be saying that I should be berating her for starting anti-EU threads.
You are not making any sense to me, Dominic. Perhaps someone can explain...
Of course Poppy is entitled (and most welcome!) to start threads. My point was the criticism you were applying to HiC could equally be applied to Poppy, or any other poster who only shows one side of the story.
Web Designer / Developer. Currently working on Paphos Life.
Living in Polemi, Cyprus with my wife and daughter.
Of course there are two sides to every story, but it would be a rather sad Forum if we all tried to post both sides of an argument as though we didn't know what side we were on. Rather like 'Indecisive Dave'
HIC takes one view and I take another. I do not expect HIC to post pro-Brexit news, of course but I berate him when he misquotes a source or fails to prove his point with it...
In answer to Dominic I have to agree that the two posts that he refers to are not positive but they were posted to prove a point that,despite HIC's assertions on how well the EU is doing and all solidarity etc, there really are problems arising and if you think otherwise then you are the ones who are burying your heads in the sand!!
I certainly agree with our Government that I hope the EU does well after BREXIT and I believe that it can be beneficial to many countries just not the UK!!
Royal wrote: ↑Tue Aug 29, 2017 1:48 pm
Of course there are two sides to every story, but it would be a rather sad Forum if we all tried to post both sides of an argument as though we didn't know what side we were on. Rather like 'Indecisive Dave'
HIC takes one view and I take another. I do not expect HIC to post pro-Brexit news, of course but I berate him when he misquotes a source or fails to prove his point with it...
I agree, but then I'm not the one berating HiC for only posting one side of the story.
Web Designer / Developer. Currently working on Paphos Life.
Living in Polemi, Cyprus with my wife and daughter.
I don't berate him for posting one side of the story - that is inevitable when we take a position on something as important as this. I berate him for not responding to the Brexit 'good news' posts which he goaded Brexiteers into producing whilst expecting a response to the Brexit 'bad news' posts which he posts.
Why shouldn't you only post one side of the story ? I for one don't want to post anything that supports the remain camp. I don't agree with remain, that's why I voted leave ! It's all conjecture anyway, just one or more people's opinion. We all have an opinion on any subject surely, or should it be a case of I used to be indecisive but now I'm not so sure.
Jackie
It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog.
Jimgward wrote: ↑Tue Aug 29, 2017 12:14 pm
Royal. You’re assertion that trade talks can’t beigin until Brexit is baloney. It takes years of negotiations to establish trade deals. Nothing stops these happening in the background. I know for sure that at least one EU member has already had informal talks about how to continue to work with Britain.
Of course you are entitled to your opinion, Jimgward, but my assertion is certainly not baloney. EU rules quite specifically and categorically prohibit us from making trade deals with other countries whilst still a member of the EU. Agreed that nothing stops the UK from unofficially discussing future, post Brexit, trade deals now, but of course, as I have stated, such trade deals will also be dependent upon our future trading relationship with the EU and our access to the Single Market (given that we cannot be a member post Brexit). It also crucially hinges on our exiting the Customs Union which currently requires us to levy tariffs on all non EU goods entering the UK.
Why do trade deals usually take so long? Mainly because there are currently 28 member states of the EU which have to be consulted and considered before a trade deal can take place. Let's not forget that a province of a single rather small member state - Walloon - held up the Canada trade deal. When a sovereign nation (eg UK) cuts a trade deal with another sovereign nation (eg India) its far, far simpler than trying to negotiate with a protectionist trading bloc (eg EU). As far as the UK cutting a trade deal with the EU is concerned, of course it should be easier than you are making out. As current members of the EU we are fully compliant with all aspects of trade in all areas - agriculture, electrical equipment, car manufacture etc etc. There is simply no reason for a UK/EU trade deal to take years.
Jimgward wrote: ↑Tue Aug 29, 2017 12:14 pm
If Britain aren’t close to deals with other naturns, are we going to leave and be unable to trade, except with the EU under whatever terms are agreed?
What nonsense. When cutting a trade deal between sovereign nations, the UK is going to try to get free trade agreements (ie no tariffs). Of course we can and will trade with other nations without a trade deal in place, but such deals may be made under WTO rules. It will still make world wide goods cheaper than EU goods which are artificially ‘protected’ by the Single Market and the Customs Union.
Jimgward wrote: ↑Tue Aug 29, 2017 12:14 pm
It is obvious on here, that most fervent posters are pro-brexit and will easily jump in to ‘support’ one of the brood’s views. Equally, HiC’s views are informed and at times personal, but valid never the less and certainly much more informed than most of the ‘well done’ broods happy clapping.
I don’t for a minute believe there will be anything other than Brexit. I also believe it is in our interests that it is good for Britain, but sadly, it’s looking more and more negative time, and nothing to do with the media.... they are often simply reporting events. For every Pro-Remain story, there are at least as many pro-brexit ones. The press, tv channels and radio stations in the uk are certainly overwhelmingly Tory supporting.
Of course HICs views are valid as are yours - that's why I respond to them. If they were not valid, no-one would give a hoot and ignore them, surely? I also take time to read links and long articles posted in view of either side and respond accordingly. I of course believe that HIC’s opinions on Brexit are wrong, as he clearly believes mine are. Unfortunately, most media reporting nowadays consists of just opinion which is dressed up as ‘news’.
Royal, it would appear that David Davies does not hold your views..... I think I’d believe he knows the rules, so it doesn’t take away his naïveté, but does negate your non-Ballinger point...
Jimgward wrote: ↑Sat Sep 02, 2017 11:22 am
Royal, it would appear that David Davies does not hold your views..... I think I’d believe he knows the rules, so it doesn’t take away his naïveté, but does negate your non-Ballinger point...
We can have trade talks but cannot make trade deals (i.e. close, sign, ratify etc) a trade deal whilst still a member of the EU.
For some major trading countries (e.g. Japan) any deal will depend upon our post Brexit access to the Single Market and therefore talks are unlikely to start until the future is clearer.
I'm sorry Royal but you have lost me on this one I am probably being incredibly dense but can you explain why we would need access to the single market to do a trade deal with Japan?
Poppy wrote: ↑Sun Sep 03, 2017 9:03 am
I'm sorry Royal but you have lost me on this one I am probably being incredibly dense but can you explain why we would need access to the single market to do a trade deal with Japan?
Japan has heavily invested in the UK and provides employment for around 140,000 people through its Nissan, Fujitsu, Mitsubishi, Hitachi and many other Japanese factories producing its goods in the UK for sale within the EU, not just within the UK. By basing its factories in the UK it avoids the tariffs imposed by the EU on non-EU goods. If Nissans were being imported to the EU from Japan, for example, there would be a 10% tariff imposed, which doesn't happen if Nissans are being made in the UK. The bottom line is that it needs to sell its goods to the EU Market and if, after Brexit, the UK becomes a 'Third Country' (i.e. Non-EU) without favourable access (tariff free) then it may not wish to continue investing as much in the UK and move some operations to an EU27 country.
Bottom line, Poppy is that we don't need access to the Single Market to do a trade deal, but Japan would not wish to conclude a deal until it knows what our post Brexit relationship with the EU is going to be.
I am probably being incredibly dense but can you explain why we would need access to the single market to do a trade deal with Japan? 
