Just one example of false reporting by the media

[Varky]

Rita,

Could you please define "rich".

These would only be the 5% of the population that would be affected by the change in the higher end tax rates.

Has it never occurred to you that those people whom you so obviously despise do very often assist those less fortunate than themselves. Get the chip of your shoulder and look around you

I do not despise such people but think that they should pay more to assist the lower end of the working population. In addition there are many millionaires in UK that, proportionally to their income are paying less than the basic tax payer. Politics of envy, Not on my part, just want some social justice. That coming from someone who will not benefit at all from these changes, apart from a possible change in the exchange rate, to my detriment.

Mr Corbyn stated he was going to put 10,000 more police on the streets of the UK

True, but didn't Theresa May also promise to put more police resources (to replace the 20,000 that she cut whilst she was Home Secretary, perhaps).

Yes the police did a magnificent job under the circumstances, but have you asked yourself whether what happened in Manchester and London could have been prevented if those resources had not been cut. Some of those responsible were already on the police lists but, probably due to lack of resources were not followed up on. So please don't congratulate TM for announcing she was going to replace those she had cut, especially during an election campaign.

[Rita Sherry]

Rita,

Could you please define "rich".

These would only be the 5% of the population that would be affected by the change in the higher end tax rates.

Has it never occurred to you that those people whom you so obviously despise do very often assist those less fortunate than themselves. Get the chip of your shoulder and look around you

I do not despise such people but think that they should pay more to assist the lower end of the working population. In addition there are many millionaires in UK that, proportionally to their income are paying less than the basic tax payer. Politics of envy, Not on my part, just want some social justice. That coming from someone who will not benefit at all from these changes, apart from a possible change in the exchange rate, to my detriment.

Mr Corbyn stated he was going to put 10,000 more police on the streets of the UK

True, but didn't Theresa May also promise to put more police resources (to replace the 20,000 that she cut whilst she was Home Secretary, perhaps).

Yes the police did a magnificent job under the circumstances, but have you asked yourself whether what happened in Manchester and London could have been prevented if those resources had not been cut. Some of those responsible were already on the police lists but, probably due to lack of resources were not followed up on. So please don't congratulate TM for announcing she was going to replace those she had cut, especially during an election campaign.

Typical Socialist Dogma

Firstly can you tell me where in my post I congratulated Mrs May? I dealt or at least endeavoured to deal with the situation relating to the proposed increase of police by Mr Corbyn and the reality of its effect. Please dont put words into my mouth. What Mrs May did say immediately after the Manchester/London incidents was she would consult with the police and security services. The police and indeed the security services have also stated on TV news bulletins that no-one, I repeat no-one including themselves could have prevented what happened. So shall we let them get on with their job - neither you or I can, other than speculate,know what is or is not required save to say the evil amongst us is a very dangerous animal who has no intention of stopping. What is required is for ALL political factions to come together on this issue to attempt to reach a solution how best to deal with it not play party politics. The public deserves and demands better.

Do you count the small business gentleman who is concerned he may have to reduce his workforce (4) should he have to meet an increase in his Corporation Tax bill amongst the only 5% of the population who will have to pay increased taxation? Not much social justice there. What happens say if everyone suddenly decides it is really not worth aiming to be successful or endeavouring to improve ones lot and only to have it taken away in taxation - never a very good policy

Lord Sugar was one of the people accused of under paying tax etc etc so being the man he is he photographed a copy of a cheque for 58 million pounds made payable to the Tax Man for last years' tax. Not the first time he has been accused of taking advantage - Nick Clegg used him as an example of someone receiving the Winter Fuel Allowance only to receive a speedy text message reading "I have never claimed it you twit" The 58 million was Company Tax so in addition there would also be his personal tax obligation. Just give a thought to how many people he employs when you speak of social justice as opposed to people often believing what he and his like make they keep to themselves. That also goes for those in the lower echelons of the work place or do they not qualify for some social justice as opposed to being demonised.

Rita

[Jimgym]

Rita, beautifully put thank you.

[Varky]

I am happy to be called a socialist.

[cyprusgrump]

Some very good posts on this thread.

The problem with 'tax the rich' (be it individuals or corporations) is that the amount of increased revenue predicted always assumes no change in behaviour - i.e. everybody just continues as they are yet pays more tax.

In reality of course, increased taxation reduces the incentive to earn more. Why go the 'extra mile' when any extra you earn will just go to the government? Why not just kick back and do the minimum to keep you under the higher tax bracket?

For corporations too, increasing tax reduces investment, may lead to job losses and they will inevitably change their business model in order to minimise the amount of tax they pay. Of course, in reality, corporations don't even pay taxes - it is their customers (including the less well off), employees and shareholders that the burden falls on and who will lose out.

I think everybody is 'happy' to pay a reasonable amount of tax if they see it being spent wisely. Taking more than 50% of someone's earnings under threat of violence is simply obscene. We've known about The Laffer Curve for years. Simply put, beyond a certain point increases in taxation result in a reduction in revenue.

Bizarrely, it is the socialists that call for increased taxation that also want extra taxes on booze, fags, 'junk food', sugary drinks, etc. in order to change behaviour and get people to consume less because it costs more.

PS reference police cuts...

In 1994 there were 128,000 police in England and Wales. In 2016, 124,000. That’s not exactly a drastic cut over time, is it?

Population is up but I don’t think that includes 15,000 or so PCSOs. Invented in 2002.

[WHL]

99% of Politicians are in it for themselves,remember their commons perks scam.. the sad people are the doppy ones who hang on the politician every word, and believe the rubbish they feed you...to me they are all lying scum, some more then others.

[WHL]

No mate, Ive sussed out, when a politician is lying ...they open and move their mouth, but please feel free to believe whatever rubbish, their feeding the sheep now days.

[Poppy]

Excellent Daily Mail article - thanks for posting Hudswell.

[smudger]

Food for thought, just picked this up on Facebook -

"An economics professor at a local college made a statement that he had never failed a single student before, but had recently failed an entire class. That class had insisted that Corbyn's vision of socialism worked and that no one would be poor and no one would be rich, a great equalizer.
The professor then said, “OK, we will have an experiment in this class on Corbyn's ideological plan”. All grades will be averaged and everyone will receive the same grade so no one will fail and no one will receive an A…. (substituting grades for £ 's )something closer to home and more readily understood by all).
After the first test, the grades were averaged and everyone got a B. The students who studied hard were upset and the students who studied little were happy. As the second test rolled around, the students who studied little had studied even less and the ones who studied hard decided they wanted a free ride too so they studied little.
The second test average was a D! No one was happy.
When the 3rd test rolled around, the average was an F.
As the tests proceeded, the scores never increased as bickering, blame and name-calling all resulted in hard feelings and no one would study for the benefit of anyone else.
To their great surprise, ALL FAILED and the professor told them that socialism would also ultimately fail because when the reward is great, the effort to succeed is great, but when government takes all the reward away, no one will try or want to succeed.

It could not be any simpler than that.

There are five morals to this story:
1. You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity.
2. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving.
3. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else.
4. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it!
5. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that is the beginning of the end of any nation."

The last one to leave turn the lights out.

[cyprusgrump]

Food for thought, just picked this up on Facebook -

"An economics professor at a local college made a statement that he had never failed a single student before, but had recently failed an entire class. That class had insisted that Corbyn's vision of socialism worked and that no one would be poor and no one would be rich, a great equalizer.
The professor then said, “OK, we will have an experiment in this class on Corbyn's ideological plan”. All grades will be averaged and everyone will receive the same grade so no one will fail and no one will receive an A…. (substituting grades for £ 's )something closer to home and more readily understood by all).
After the first test, the grades were averaged and everyone got a B. The students who studied hard were upset and the students who studied little were happy. As the second test rolled around, the students who studied little had studied even less and the ones who studied hard decided they wanted a free ride too so they studied little.
The second test average was a D! No one was happy.
When the 3rd test rolled around, the average was an F.
As the tests proceeded, the scores never increased as bickering, blame and name-calling all resulted in hard feelings and no one would study for the benefit of anyone else.
To their great surprise, ALL FAILED and the professor told them that socialism would also ultimately fail because when the reward is great, the effort to succeed is great, but when government takes all the reward away, no one will try or want to succeed.

It could not be any simpler than that.

There are five morals to this story:
1. You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity.
2. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving.
3. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else.
4. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it!
5. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that is the beginning of the end of any nation."

The last one to leave turn the lights out.

A great story but sadly just an urban legend...

[Firefly]

CG

It may be just a great story, but number 5, the most logical, sums it up.

Jackie

[cyprusgrump]

CG

It may be just a great story, but number 5, the most logical, sums it up.

Jackie

Oh yes, I completely agree with the premise...

I just wish the story was true - and repeated in every school, college and university. The young might have a greater understanding of where the cash they have great expectations of receiving actually comes from.

While talking about the young, I read this today : -

Around one in 10 (11 per cent) of 11-14-year-olds and a similar proportion of 14-16-year-olds (10 per cent) thought that tomatoes grow underground, with 40% of the younger age group saying they grow on a vine and 22 per cent saying on a bush (49 per cent and 18 per cent respectively for the older age range).

Some 11 per cent of both 11-14-year-olds and 14-16-year-olds thought that fruit pastilles counted towards their five-a-day, while 27 per cent of the younger group and 26 per cent of the older range thought that they could include strawberry jam as part of their daily fruit and veg.

Clicky...

And they want to give these people the vote?

[smudger]

"A great story but sadly just an urban legend..."

Suspected it may be, but thought it was worth the amusement. Strangely, when reading it I did think that it sounded more like Communism than Socialism!, but then, the line between what messrs Corbyn and McDonnell deem to be Socialism as compared to Communismin is extremely fine!

[PhotoLady]

At last a degree of sanity returning to the MSM, an article by Peter Osbourne in the Daily Mail

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... s-WON.html

Not so sure about that..... a few phrases that don't fill me with any great confidence:

But I believe that over time — and if she listens to others — she can start to build it back.....

Certainly, she needs to change her style....

and, as long as Mrs May adopts a more collegiate way of working, of including and involving her Cabinet....

but Theresa May needs to do more — to reach out to the country as a whole....

And if Mrs May truly has the stomach for the task — and I hope she does....

Going off those phrases I feel Peter Oborne doesn't appear to be wholly convinced about our current PM.

The Queen's speech is now somewhat delayed and Mrs May freely admits it was her who got us in this mess, but promises to get us out of it. Interesting times ahead - for everyone.

[Jimgward]

Well, since the reckon the demographic of the Tory voter, is on average white, middle-class, daily mail reading, retired .... and since around 2% of the elderly die each year, it wont take long till the voting population is completely different.

I dont think they'll want two-party politics either. More like the German system.

All this crap as well, about the young not being capable of voting..... underestimate the younger voters at your peril.

Maybe, just maybe, they're fed up with cap-doffing, subservient and non-moralistic views on life,

[Jim B]

Great post Jimgward; the young aren't as foolish as those who believe they are.

Jim

[cyprusgrump]

Well, since the reckon the demographic of the Tory voter, is on average white, middle-class, daily mail reading, retired .... and since around 2% of the elderly die each year, it wont take long till the voting population is completely different.

I dont think they'll want two-party politics either. More like the German system.

All this crap as well, about the young not being capable of voting..... underestimate the younger voters at your peril.

Maybe, just maybe, they're fed up with cap-doffing, subservient and non-moralistic views on life,

You miss the (rather obvious) point that all those retired people were young once too...

But they realised as they matured that there is no magic money tree, you can't get something for nothing. So they worked hard and saved and invested in their futures. And they voted based on their knowledge and experiences of life.

And in their place will come another generation.

[Jim B]

Maturity does not equal wisdom.

Jim

[cyprusgrump]

Maturity does not equal wisdom.

Jim

Except (as I pointed out) all those pensioners were youngsters once themselves...

I expect many of them held political views that they now disagree with. But they have matured and gained the wisdom of working all their lives, seeing political ideas and dogmas come and go.

I loath the way the left like to bash pensioners (and wish them dead in some cases) as if they are some alien life that has inconveniently been given the vote and everything will be better when they are gone.

Except they aren't going anywhere, as has been reported the population is aging and new generations are taking their place.

[Jim B]

Having experienced youth does not grant them wisdom either, people can grow old without learning from their experiences.

Jim