Grid flexibility in Cyprus is critical for RES uptake

[Paphos Life]

It is the key measure needed to reduce reliance on pricey fossil-fuels Increased grid flexibility is critical if we are to produce more than 25 per cent of our electricity from variable renewable energy sources (RES). Smarter, more flexible, electric grids not only can cut energy losses, but they also are...

Read the article and chat about it below...

[cyprusmax47]

Well, yesterday lunchtime I realized a serious drop in voltage supplied by EAC, down to 208 volt by 49.78 HZ. with flickering lights in the house.
Worse however was a total power cut afterwards for about 1 hour.

Max

[Kili01]

If my memory is correct this question of grid flexibility in Cyprus has been highlighted by this EU communication.EAC must be perfectly aware that its now time to stop talking about the 'fragility'' of the Cyprus network which presently is unable to cope with the spikes in electricity caused by renewable energy systems connected to the grid.
This has been something of an excuse to try to limit the ability of anyone producing renewable energy.
There has been a charge for RES on my electricity bill. Let's hope that the entity responsible for the electricity grid and transmission will put work to do this in hand.
Dee

[jeba]

How to increase resilience to spikes in renewable production at a reasonable cost if you don't have gas-fired power stations the output of which can be adjusted almost instantaneously?

[Devil]

It takes at least 30 minutes to start and adjust a gas-fired power station and bring it onto line. The only way to reduce this time would be to have one or two systems running idly but spewing forth oodles of carbon dioxide!

[jeba]

It takes at least 30 minutes to start and adjust a gas-fired power station and bring it onto line. The only way to reduce this time would be to have one or two systems running idly but spewing forth oodles of carbon dioxide!

That may be true for those using turbines, but I was under the impression that there are combustion based power plants using LNG (just like many cars in Germany, because of lower tax), and those should react much quicker ( basically like a car engine).

[Devil]

That may be true for those using turbines, but I was under the impression that are combustion based power plants using LNG (just like many cars in Germany, because of lower tax), and those should react much quicker ( basically like a car engine).

Prithee, where do you find LNG in Cyprus? Secondly, I have never heard of a car using LNG at -162° C.

[jeba]

Prithee, where do you find LNG in Cyprus?

That´s why I had asked how you can increase the resilience of the grid in the absence of it.

Secondly, I have never heard of a car using LNG at -162° C.

Until 3 years ago I had a natural gas-fueled (mixture of propane and butane) car in Germany (was great because 1 l cost only about 50 -60 Cents) and once you finished fueling and disconnected the hose, there was indeed ice forming around the valve. I doubt though it was -162°, so it probably was LPG rather than LNG.

[Devil]

Sorry, yes, LNG and LPG are two very different beasts. I sincerely hope that any ideas for LNG in Cyprus will slowly disappear; it is probably the worst "solution" possible for the island. I acknowledge that CNG may be useful as a short-term stopgap measure until we can cease using hydrocarbon fuels for electricity generation. The cost of this CNG would be much lower as the re-gasification of LNG and its consequent emissions would take us economically and ecologically skyhigh if it were implemented. The CNG could be brought by pipeline from Aphrodite or one of the newer fields more to the west.

[jeba]

So back to my question: what could be done to make the grid more resilient in the absence of natgas fueled power stations?

[mark4007]

So back to my question: what could be done to make the grid more resilient in the absence of natgas fueled power stations?

A key element of for RES power generation ( above a certain level) is the ability to store the energy produced by the renewable energy to feed that back into the system as and when necessary,

For Cyprus it is easy to be able to imagine that one part of such an energy storage system could be the use of pumped hydro-electric storage (PHES). Dinorwig Power Station in Wales is one example that provides a short term operating reserve.

[Kili01]

Mark, Hydro electric maybe practical in Wales with its abundance of of waterfalls and rivers. But in Cyprus where dry, hot summer conditions drastically reduces the amount of running water in rivers?
At present Cyprus still has a mixture of gas burning and old fashioned heavy fuel oil burning generators. Also as far as I know, there still aren't any high capacity lithium batteries capable of storing excess power generated by systems producing renewable energy.
So what's the answer to this?

Dee

[Devil]

So what's the answer to this?

Dee

are two well tried answers to the problem.
1.incineration of waste can produce 9% of our energy needs and could be timed for when the sun is not shining. This is common, economical and operational in many countries.
2.mini-nuclear power stations can produce electricity 24/7 if required.. One 300 to 500 MW at each end of the country would provide all our emergency needs, with minimal low radiation waste disposal (not to be confused with the major nuclear power stations in operation today!).

[mark4007]

Mark, Hydro electric maybe practical in Wales with its abundance of of waterfalls and rivers. But in Cyprus where dry, hot summer conditions drastically reduces the amount of running water in rivers?
At present Cyprus still has a mixture of gas burning and old fashioned heavy fuel oil burning generators. Also as far as I know, there still aren't any high capacity lithium batteries capable of storing excess power generated by systems producing renewable energy.
So what's the answer to this?

Dee

have a look at the plant in wales.. there is no need for, and it does use waterfalls/rivers, just needs the ability to store water at altitude and then realease it to travel downwards and power turbines.. then store the water lower and use RES to pump it back uphill

its not new technology.. in fact built 40 years ago..

what you need are changes in altitude and the ability to store water at height..

we are surrounded by water and have lots of hills..

[mark4007]

So what's the answer to this?

Dee

are two well tried answers to the problem.
1.incineration of waste can produce 9% of our energy needs and could be timed for when the sun is not shining. This is common, economical and operational in many countries.
2.mini-nuclear power stations can produce electricity 24/7 if required.. One 300 to 500 MW at each end of the country would provide all our emergency needs, with minimal low radiation waste disposal (not to be confused with the major nuclear power stations in operation today!).

Personally i am not convinced that building nuclear power stations in an area thats prone to earthquakes is a good idea..

[Devil]

Personally i am not convinced that building nuclear power stations in an area thats prone to earthquakes is a good idea..

Properly designed, nuclear power stations withstand earthquakes admirably. Take a look at Fukushima; the disaster there was not cause directly by the earthquake, but by inadequate design forethought. In fact, it continued to generate for some time after the earthquake, without problems. What followed was a series of errors. The first problem was that the seawall protecting the site was insufficiently high to stop the tidal wave and large quantities of seawater slopped over it. This penetrated the electrical substation, at ground level, and stopped all connections to the grid. In itself, this was not catastrophic, because there was sufficient electrical energy available from the emergency generators to keep the plant running or to allow it to be shut down. In fact, the shutdown procedure was started at the very first signs of a problem. To understand what happened next, remember that it was a second-generation power station, already two decades old. At the time of construction, emergency generators were normally in underground buildings and, unfortunately, this was the case here. After a short period of time, the water flooded down into the generator rooms and this was the cause of the real catastrophe. Both sources of emergency electricity, from the grid and from the underground generators, were flooded. There was therefore no cooling of the nuclear reactors with the result that everybody knows. Being wise after the event is easy but this disaster would never have happened if the seawall had been a metre or so higher; no one predicted a tsunami of that magnitude!

Even before this event, emergency generators in nuclear power stations were not placed in the basement. For each reactor, there are normally three or four emergency generators in different parts of the buildings, which, of course, are as fully earthquake proof as modern technology can predict. Current large nuclear power stations are 2 1/2 generations later than Fukushima but the new, smaller designs have broken away from massive conventional designs, in favour of smaller, safer designs. Obviously, in Cyprus we have no nuclear power stations although, hopefully, this may change in the future to fail-safe types.

[Kili01]

Devil,
Very interesting, but wonder what you think can be done-to drastically improve the Grid flexibility in Cyprus? Is the present system just too old and outdated? Failure to sort this out will continue to prevent the country from increasing their use of RES which should in time be more efficient and much less expensive for consumers.

Dee