Aphrodite's Rock Brewery - Gender Bias
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Aphrodite's Rock Brewery - Gender Bias
The following is an extract from the Brewery's job advert that arrived on my Facebook news feed this morning:
We are currently looking to employ a person to assist our pizza chef in our busy pizzeria. Preferably a male but all applications will be considered. Must be of EU Origin. No experience necessary as full training will be given. The role will include preparing food and learning how to make our very popular pizzas.
I was rather shocked to see the blatant gender bias expressed so openly when it is against EU law to do so. I'm also not sure about the EU origin requirement being permissible.
What does the team think?
Pete
We are currently looking to employ a person to assist our pizza chef in our busy pizzeria. Preferably a male but all applications will be considered. Must be of EU Origin. No experience necessary as full training will be given. The role will include preparing food and learning how to make our very popular pizzas.
I was rather shocked to see the blatant gender bias expressed so openly when it is against EU law to do so. I'm also not sure about the EU origin requirement being permissible.
What does the team think?
Pete
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Re: Aphrodite's Rock Brewery - Gender Bias
I have more important things to be concerned about!?!?!?!
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Re: Aphrodite's Rock Brewery - Gender Bias
Such as the barber on Russian Road or TellyPass?merchant_banker wrote: ↑Tue Apr 18, 2017 10:13 am I have more important things to be concerned about!?!?!?!
Your earlier posts suggest otherwise!
Personally, I think the OP has a good point.
Re: Aphrodite's Rock Brewery - Gender Bias
Got a feeling that its got to be open for both sexes, as for EU national, not a problem, as I think non EU persons are limited in what work they can do/hours etc.
Re: Aphrodite's Rock Brewery - Gender Bias
The last few times that we have been there, all of the serving staff at Afrodites Rock are female, maybe there is a good reason for them needing a Male to assist making the pizzas?
David
Dishonesty is the second best policy
Dishonesty is the second best policy
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Re: Aphrodite's Rock Brewery - Gender Bias
I think the Brewery have realised the error of their ways and have now amended the advert removing the male preference and EU requirement and added the following post:
We apologise for any offence and the appearance of sexism. Traditionally pizza chefs are men due to the very heavy physical work involved in dough production but we are, as we say, prepared to accept anyone who can handle such activities. We have amended and re-posted the advertisement accordingly.
The matter is closed as far as I am concerned.
Pete
We apologise for any offence and the appearance of sexism. Traditionally pizza chefs are men due to the very heavy physical work involved in dough production but we are, as we say, prepared to accept anyone who can handle such activities. We have amended and re-posted the advertisement accordingly.
The matter is closed as far as I am concerned.
Pete
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Re: Aphrodite's Rock Brewery - Gender Bias
No it wasn't me.
There may be more important things in life but this is as valid an issue to discuss as any other appearing on this forum. If you do not wish to discuss it, you have that option.
However this is an important point, important enough for the Brewery to issue a retraction and apology.
As for your command to "just get over it", I'd already posted that the matter is closed for me. Why do you wish to cause an argument after the event?
Pete
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Re: Aphrodite's Rock Brewery - Gender Bias
Again, a quick reference to the postings suggests that people in glasshouses etc.
Personally, I find a discussion on gender bias in adverts a tad more important and interesting than, say, the wedding dress diet.....but each to his/her own priorities.
Re: Aphrodite's Rock Brewery - Gender Bias
I've seen loads of job adverts in Cyprus for waitresses.
Perhaps the chef's mrs doesn't trust him?
Perhaps the chef's mrs doesn't trust him?
Web Designer / Developer. Currently working on Paphos Life.
Living in Polemi, Cyprus with my wife and daughter.
Living in Polemi, Cyprus with my wife and daughter.
Re: Aphrodite's Rock Brewery - Gender Bias
Good to be reminded of the very special pizzas that are prepared there! Looking fwd to the next visit soon.
A.
A.
Re: Aphrodite's Rock Brewery - Gender Bias
Regardless of what the Law says about advertising and recruitment, once you give the applicants the courtesy of an interview you as the Employer can pick who you want. I used to hate our company HR department telling me as the Operations manger that I had to recruit all manner of ethnic groups and abilities and disabilities. Some jobs suit a particular person - if its a Male you want then that is what you should be allowed to recruit rather than waste everyones time and money on needless interviews.
Re: Aphrodite's Rock Brewery - Gender Bias
This is exactly the situation my son has had to contend with in the Police Force. His progression has been thwarted on several occasions because of this 'PC' attitude.bromerzz wrote: ↑Tue Apr 18, 2017 7:03 pm Regardless of what the Law says about advertising and recruitment, once you give the applicants the courtesy of an interview you as the Employer can pick who you want. I used to hate our company HR department telling me as the Operations manger that I had to recruit all manner of ethnic groups and abilities and disabilities. Some jobs suit a particular person - if its a Male you want then that is what you should be allowed to recruit rather than waste everyones time and money on needless interviews.
Re: Aphrodite's Rock Brewery - Gender Bias
What were the jobs that suited males rather than females, and white people rather than ethnic minorities?
I would have thought that the most important factors would be ability and personality.
I would have thought that the most important factors would be ability and personality.
Web Designer / Developer. Currently working on Paphos Life.
Living in Polemi, Cyprus with my wife and daughter.
Living in Polemi, Cyprus with my wife and daughter.
Re: Aphrodite's Rock Brewery - Gender Bias
I was asking Austin about their experience. It was my fault for not quoting them.
Web Designer / Developer. Currently working on Paphos Life.
Living in Polemi, Cyprus with my wife and daughter.
Living in Polemi, Cyprus with my wife and daughter.
- cyprusmax47
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Re: Aphrodite's Rock Brewery - Gender Bias
Agree absolutely Hudswell. Never saw a female doing Pizza in North Italy where I used to live 4 years. Beside that, when I returned back to Cyprus I stopped eating Pizza here as the difference is so huge. Many here have no idea to do a nice thin base beside the topping is so poor quality. Coming to prices: I paid 6 Euro for Pizza with Parma Ham and the highest price was 10 Euro for Pizza with fresh truffles or Porcini (seps) when they were in season. (yummy)
But one cannot have everything....
Max
Re: Aphrodite's Rock Brewery - Gender Bias
You are quite right. I really should stop trying to post while I am using my tablet. I need my keyboard.
So, let's take it from the top...
What were the jobs that suited males rather than females, and white people rather than ethnic minorities?bromerzz wrote: ↑Tue Apr 18, 2017 7:03 pm Regardless of what the Law says about advertising and recruitment, once you give the applicants the courtesy of an interview you as the Employer can pick who you want. I used to hate our company HR department telling me as the Operations manger that I had to recruit all manner of ethnic groups and abilities and disabilities. Some jobs suit a particular person - if its a Male you want then that is what you should be allowed to recruit rather than waste everyones time and money on needless interviews.
I would have thought that the most important factors would be ability and personality.
Web Designer / Developer. Currently working on Paphos Life.
Living in Polemi, Cyprus with my wife and daughter.
Living in Polemi, Cyprus with my wife and daughter.
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Re: Aphrodite's Rock Brewery - Gender Bias
So do we agree that it would have been far better to have made the above statement in the original job ad? That described the job well and would have made it clear to unsuitable candidates of either sex. Equally it would have made it clear to relevant females, and I've no doubt that there are many, who are very capable of the hard physical work. It would have also been within the law which is the key issue: they broke the law - nothing to do with Political Correctness at all. I am quite outspoken against PC activities which are daft, but in this case I realised that it was not the root problem. It's a pity some of the contributors on here don't seem to understand that just because you don't like a process you can't just right it off as another PC issue.Happy in Cyprus wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2017 12:55 am
In this particular instance, as Pete posted further up this thread (from the company advertising the job):
"Traditionally pizza chefs are men due to the very heavy physical work involved in dough production but we are, as we say, prepared to accept anyone who can handle such activities. We have amended and re-posted the advertisement accordingly".
Seems fair enough to me; they know what's required of an employee better than any of us do.
Pete
Re: Aphrodite's Rock Brewery - Gender Bias
I agree. If you blame everything on PC it becomes meaningless. Health and Safety has a similar problem.PeteandSylvi wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2017 10:09 amSo do we agree that it would have been far better to have made the above statement in the original job ad? That described the job well and would have made it clear to unsuitable candidates of either sex. Equally it would have made it clear to relevant females, and I've no doubt that there are many, who are very capable of the hard physical work. It would have also been within the law which is the key issue: they broke the law - nothing to do with Political Correctness at all. I am quite outspoken against PC activities which are daft, but in this case I realised that it was not the root problem. It's a pity some of the contributors on here don't seem to understand that just because you don't like a process you can't just right it off as another PC issue.Happy in Cyprus wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2017 12:55 am
In this particular instance, as Pete posted further up this thread (from the company advertising the job):
"Traditionally pizza chefs are men due to the very heavy physical work involved in dough production but we are, as we say, prepared to accept anyone who can handle such activities. We have amended and re-posted the advertisement accordingly".
Seems fair enough to me; they know what's required of an employee better than any of us do.
Pete
Web Designer / Developer. Currently working on Paphos Life.
Living in Polemi, Cyprus with my wife and daughter.
Living in Polemi, Cyprus with my wife and daughter.
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Re: Aphrodite's Rock Brewery - Gender Bias
Pete
Please permit me to disagree with your statement that this Company "broke the law" and your shock at seeing "this blatant gender bias". Reading the original advert whilst it is quite clear there was preference for a male applicant it nevertheless was qualified by the use of the words "but all applicants will be considered" thus making it arguable that there was any overt gender bias. Regarding the "Must be of EU origin" statement a poster has already given a possible explanation for this terminology and is correct in the assumption. Non EU workers have limits placed on the type of work, hours etc they are permitted to undertake under Employment Law and Immigration Law and woe betide any employer found employing someone who is not entitled to be so - he/she is looking at a very hefty fine (the employer that is not the employed).
I applaud your defence of us females but however strong (physically) they may be I have yet to see females building roads, working on building sites and, in the case of the UK and other industrialised nations I dont think there are many females working in the mining industry etc nor can I see any sensible female wishing to do so. We faught long and hard to stop women and children being sent down the mines and up chimneys. That having been said I did know of one female "Factory Inspector", as they were then called, who was most adapt at hoping up ladders on building sites etc and who put the fear of God into most managers and owners alike when she descended on their companies.
The Company under discussion is endeavouring to run a business which gives employment to others and service to the general populace and, for my part, I do feel they and others like them can well do without well meaning people scrutinising each and every word used in advertising etc in the event they may or may not be "breaking the law"
As any law student can tell you the underlying principle of good law is "Equity is a shield and not a sword"
Rita
Please permit me to disagree with your statement that this Company "broke the law" and your shock at seeing "this blatant gender bias". Reading the original advert whilst it is quite clear there was preference for a male applicant it nevertheless was qualified by the use of the words "but all applicants will be considered" thus making it arguable that there was any overt gender bias. Regarding the "Must be of EU origin" statement a poster has already given a possible explanation for this terminology and is correct in the assumption. Non EU workers have limits placed on the type of work, hours etc they are permitted to undertake under Employment Law and Immigration Law and woe betide any employer found employing someone who is not entitled to be so - he/she is looking at a very hefty fine (the employer that is not the employed).
I applaud your defence of us females but however strong (physically) they may be I have yet to see females building roads, working on building sites and, in the case of the UK and other industrialised nations I dont think there are many females working in the mining industry etc nor can I see any sensible female wishing to do so. We faught long and hard to stop women and children being sent down the mines and up chimneys. That having been said I did know of one female "Factory Inspector", as they were then called, who was most adapt at hoping up ladders on building sites etc and who put the fear of God into most managers and owners alike when she descended on their companies.
The Company under discussion is endeavouring to run a business which gives employment to others and service to the general populace and, for my part, I do feel they and others like them can well do without well meaning people scrutinising each and every word used in advertising etc in the event they may or may not be "breaking the law"
As any law student can tell you the underlying principle of good law is "Equity is a shield and not a sword"
Rita