US Syrian Air Strikes

[ApusApus]

Or perhaps an independent reporter - you know, somebody not associated with the terrorist groups actually fighting Assad...?

Is there one? But what I can't understand is why would you decline an offer that gave you the chance to see for yourself what is actually happening, beats me?

Shane

Because it is a war torn shit hole and I wouldn't be stupid enough to go there for fear of being kidnapped/tortured/murdered by Islamic terrorists...

...which is coincidentally why there are no Western Journalists in the area...

...which is coincidentally why there is no independent verification of what actually happened to those poor children that the Islamic terrorists photographed and paraded in front of the Western media.

Does it still beat you...?

Funnily enough there are plenty of jounalists who are still there trying to write their stories of being kidnapped/tortured/murdered, etc ......... or have you forgotten about them? And as for verification, I still offer you the chance to visit & prove for yourself what is actually happening! Note no rolling eyes but you still beat me!


Shane

[cyprusgrump]

Is there one? But what I can't understand is why would you decline an offer that gave you the chance to see for yourself what is actually happening, beats me?

Shane

Because it is a war torn shit hole and I wouldn't be stupid enough to go there for fear of being kidnapped/tortured/murdered by Islamic terrorists...

...which is coincidentally why there are no Western Journalists in the area...

...which is coincidentally why there is no independent verification of what actually happened to those poor children that the Islamic terrorists photographed and paraded in front of the Western media.

Does it still beat you...?

Funnily enough there are plenty of jounalists who are still there trying to write their stories of being kidnapped/tortured/murdered, etc ......... or have you forgotten about them? And as for verification, I still offer you the chance to visit & prove for yourself what is actually happening! Note no rolling eyes but you still beat me!


Shane

As I said, there are no journalists there...

Remember the Iraq war? Journalists on-line reporting on Tomahawk cruise missiles going past their hotel room windows in Baghdad? Journalists 'embedded' with the troops reporting from the front line as it happened - good or bad?

There are no journalists in northwestern Syria because the combatants can't guarantee their security - more likely they would be abducted, tortured or beheaded for publicity purposes by Islamic militants.

The 'news' of the gas attacks comes not from independent journalists, not from state sources but from Islamic militants - who have an agenda.

That is why we should question what actually happened and what the motive for it is. It is a shame that the MSM chooses not to do so and more to the shame of the public that fall for the WMD story once again.

I should point out - I am no fan of Assad. But I am a skeptic and I can see that there is no real evidence here...

And I can also see that your 'offer' of a visit to Syria carries as much wight as the evidence of this attack - it is virtue signalling with no base in reality.

[cyprusgrump]

Interesting information...

According to Wiki...

The Russian S-400 Missile System

Under "Types of targets" it specifically lists: "Strategic cruise missiles such as the Tomahawk"

And under "The number of simultaneously engaged targets" it lists: "36 (2012)" and 80 for later versions...

36 would be the most bizarre coincidence wouldn't it...?

[Varky]

Has the poison been identified as sarin? reports I have seen refer to a chlorine gas.

That makes it alright then...

Why such tone? I only asked a simple question. Do you know the answer? If not then I would suggest that you back off in favour of someone who might know. The answer might provide a guide as to whom actually is responsible.

[Taff]

I suspect that Trump has evidence not only that Assad had used Sarin, but also has evidence that the Russians knew he had used Sarin. The Russians will huff and puff, move a few battleships around, shout about legalities, but not much more. In truth this is more about North Korea, with Trump showing (a) he won't stand any messing about, (b) he has no concern for diplomatic niceties, and (c) he is unpredictable and will change his mind on a whim (or if his son-in-law tells him to). He wants China to bring pressure on North Korea, and it was no coincidence that this happened while the Chinese President was with Trump.

[rogertcb]

from the Telegraph
http://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/syr ... id=msnbcrd

[cyprusgrump]

Because it is a war torn shit hole and I wouldn't be stupid enough to go there for fear of being kidnapped/tortured/murdered by Islamic terrorists...

In that case, why do you suppose they might be an 'independent' observer on every street corner, just waiting to provide you with the evidence you require?

Precisely, you have made my point for me - there aren't independent observers there. The only evidence that we have of this attack are pictures from Islamic terrorists in the region.

Yet because you saw it on the telly and because the telly claimed Assad had done it before (no evidence for this either) you believe it...

[WHL]

I think you will also find the US tracked the aircraft from their departure airfield to the target and on their return, and of course the Turkish Authorites who have stated causes of death consistent with Chemical weapons.

Good God man, you have just lost any credibility your posts might of had in this thread...your really scraping the barrel when you stoop, to report on what Turkey says, the same Turkey who is being run by a Islamic Despot, the same Turkey who leads the World in jailing journalists..the same Turkey who backed Isis with weapons the same Turkey who was buying oil from Isis, and yet you use them to try and make a case for your flimsy facts....mate you didnt go to school with Tony Blair by any chance did you...

[Varky]

I think you will also find the US tracked the aircraft from their departure airfield to the target and on their return, and of course the Turkish Authorites who have stated causes of death consistent with Chemical weapons.

No one is arguing that no planes (Syrian or Russian?) were involved, nor that some sort of chemical weapons were involved. What I want is concrete evidence that the chemical weapons were delivered by those planes and were not being stored on the ground and were spread by the bombing. That is the weakness in your argument. I am not saying that you might not eventually be correct but just because you keep making the same unsubstantiated accusation at the moment does not make it so. Let the evidence speak. I prefer to make my own mind up without having to listen to echo politics where if something is repeated it must be so.

[Jim B]

There were photographs of drums of the type used to hold chemical weapons shown at the bombed air base by Syrian TV and Sarin Gas would have been destroyed in the explosion if things happened according to the Russian version. I really don't know the truth of the matter but having worked in the old Soviet States for many years I wouldn't be that quick to absolve Russia of all blame.

[cyprusgrump]

The "evidence" as demanded by some here will probably never be completely forthcoming....and sometimes you have to go with the burden of proof....Assad has form in this area, the Russians will probably be livid but cannot be seen to support the US intelligence...Sarin like most Chemical weapons is not easy to handle....you just do not store it! In its Pre deployment state it is inhert....it is not the weapon of choice for a terrorist or rebel organisation...and no I am not an armchair general, and yes my assumptions are based on experience...Assad murdered his own people..he is evil and hopefully in the future will be tried for his crimes...

I sleep perfectly well at night thank you but no, I do not consider myself an apologist for Assad (I notice that you frequently edit your posts to remove contentious comments)...

You repeat the same arguments about the burden of proof yet precede it by saying the evidence "will probably never be completely forthcoming"...?

You repeat the claim that Assad has done it before but AFAIAA the evidence for that has not been forthcoming either...?

As i said, I do not consider myself an Apologist for Assad who is by any measure an unpleasant character. But I really can't see the logic behind such an attack nor any convincing evidence at this stage that Assad did it. Indeed, given the source of the intelligence on the attack - those that could gain by showing Assad had used chemical weapons - I'm more inclined to believe that he didn't.

[Varky]

The "evidence" as demanded by some here will probably never be completely forthcoming....and sometimes you have to go with the burden of proof....Assad has form in this area, the Russians will probably be livid but cannot be seen to support the US intelligence...Sarin like most Chemical weapons is not easy to handle....you just do not store it! In its Pre deployment state it is inhert....it is not the weapon of choice for a terrorist or rebel organisation...and no I am not an armchair general, and yes my assumptions are based on experience...Assad murdered his own people..he is evil and hopefully in the future will be tried for his crimes...

I sleep perfectly well at night thank you but no, I do not consider myself an apologist for Assad (I notice that you frequently edit your posts to remove contentious comments)...

You repeat the same arguments about the burden of proof yet precede it by saying the evidence "will probably never be completely forthcoming"...?

You repeat the claim that Assad has done it before but AFAIAA the evidence for that has not been forthcoming either...?

As i said, I do not consider myself an Apologist for Assad who is by any measure an unpleasant character. But I really can't see the logic behind such an attack nor any convincing evidence at this stage that Assad did it. Indeed, given the source of the intelligence on the attack - those that could gain by showing Assad had used chemical weapons - I'm more inclined to believe that he didn't.

It is quite possible that the Syrian military acted unilaterally when carrying out this action and I don't think that Hudswell is accusing either you or myself of being apologists for Al Assad, we are just hoping to find a smoking gun. It appears that there will never be one as there are too many players in this scenario each with their own hidden agendas.

Thank you Hudswell for at least responding without sarcasm, which some other posters, who may have a different point of view and who shall remain anonymous, are unable to do.

[PaphosAL]

To add another perspective to this man-made 'crisis', I don't suppose this multi-national sabre-rattling and 'war' scenario in the Middle East is yet again all to do with driving up the price of Oil, is it?

No, silly me, forget I asked that... Cheers- AL

[cyprusgrump]

The "evidence" as demanded by some here will probably never be completely forthcoming....and sometimes you have to go with the burden of proof....Assad has form in this area, the Russians will probably be livid but cannot be seen to support the US intelligence...Sarin like most Chemical weapons is not easy to handle....you just do not store it! In its Pre deployment state it is inhert....it is not the weapon of choice for a terrorist or rebel organisation...and no I am not an armchair general, and yes my assumptions are based on experience...Assad murdered his own people..he is evil and hopefully in the future will be tried for his crimes...

I sleep perfectly well at night thank you but no, I do not consider myself an apologist for Assad (I notice that you frequently edit your posts to remove contentious comments)...

You repeat the same arguments about the burden of proof yet precede it by saying the evidence "will probably never be completely forthcoming"...?

You repeat the claim that Assad has done it before but AFAIAA the evidence for that has not been forthcoming either...?

As i said, I do not consider myself an Apologist for Assad who is by any measure an unpleasant character. But I really can't see the logic behind such an attack nor any convincing evidence at this stage that Assad did it. Indeed, given the source of the intelligence on the attack - those that could gain by showing Assad had used chemical weapons - I'm more inclined to believe that he didn't.

It is quite possible that the Syrian military acted unilaterally when carrying out this action and I don't think that Hudswell is accusing either you or myself of being apologists for Al Assad, we are just hoping to find a smoking gun. It appears that there will never be one as there are too many players in this scenario each with their own hidden agendas.

Thank you Hudswell for at least responding without sarcasm, which some other posters, who may have a different point of view and who shall remain anonymous, are unable to do.

Well you obviously didn't read the post before he edited it...

[cyprusgrump]

CG, my comments were not contentious, and yes I removed them because I felt them unfair to some..and if you are looking for logic, then I think you will have a long wait...history has demonstrated time and time again the evil that man can inflict upon his fellows...Assad is just another in a long line of murderous evil beings...and we should stand back and accept? The world would be a sadder and more dangerous place if we did... And no Al, nothing to do with driving up,the price of oil, just a murdering bastard determined to hang onto power at all costs, supported by a regime, Russia, determined to have influenced and sea ports in the area.

Like Iraq, Afghanistan and Libya...?