Legal advice - communal property

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J B
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Re: Legal advice - communal property

Post by J B » Mon Jul 15, 2019 2:28 pm

Steve - SJD wrote:
Mon Jul 15, 2019 12:55 pm
Here you go - from Nigel's site:

https://www.news.cyprus-property-buyers ... d=00155139
Thanks again Steve

Going back to my original question ... :)
J B wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 3:54 pm
one of the owners insists that we need to get legal advice as we are not running the committee according the law and that we must take legal advice.
Russell Flick has replied <<Unfortunately due to the high volume of email requests for advice and Russell’s limited time, he is unable to provide 1-1 support or advice via email>>
and I would rather do this by email as all the info and correspondence I have is on my PC.

Can anyone suggest another legal advisor?

The writer of the CY Mail article was <<George Coucounis is a lawyer specialising in the Immovable Property Law, based in Larnaca,>>
Should I try him?
J B

Steve - SJD
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Re: Legal advice - communal property

Post by Steve - SJD » Mon Jul 15, 2019 5:37 pm

J B wrote:
Mon Jul 15, 2019 2:28 pm
The writer of the CY Mail article was <<George Coucounis is a lawyer specialising in the Immovable Property Law, based in Larnaca,>>
Should I try him?
You might as well - I have not found many that are fully up on the law relating to Communal Management Committees/Jointly-Owned buildings law. One recent experience was that an owner was told (wrongly) by his Nicosia lawyer that the committee didn't have to get liability insurance as it was up to each individual owner :roll: :roll:

Like I say though I think the only way around this is to do as Nigel and I suggested - though I appreciate it might be difficult to get
a General Meeting organised in your circumstances.

Good luck!

Cheers

Steve

smudger
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Re: Legal advice - communal property

Post by smudger » Mon Jul 15, 2019 6:10 pm

This lawyer has a good reputation and posts on Nigel's site. She is based in Limassol.

http://www.zambartaslawoffices.com

J B
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Re: Legal advice - communal property

Post by J B » Mon Jul 15, 2019 6:21 pm

smudger wrote:
Mon Jul 15, 2019 6:10 pm
This lawyer has a good reputation and posts on Nigel's site. She is based in Limassol.

http://www.zambartaslawoffices.com
Thanks but ...
J B wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 5:43 pm
We are unable to use Zambartas I'm afraid - can explain by PM if anyone wants :oops:
J B

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Re: Legal advice - communal property

Post by smudger » Mon Jul 15, 2019 6:57 pm

Apologies, forgot that 😕

A&J
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Re: Legal advice - communal property

Post by A&J » Thu Jul 18, 2019 11:34 am

The owner you refer to must have had a reason for insisting you get legal advice. Surely it's not just down to a sinking fund? By the sounds of it you may not be running the committee according to the law. The fact that you have 8K in the communal fund rings alarm bells. The money collected by the MC for maintenance, repair and insurance etc. needs to be spent in the year following the AGM when the budget was agreed. According to the law, a management committee is not allowed to keep large amounts of money in the fund and that imposing further fees whilst there is a surplus is not in line with the provisions of the law as mentioned in the George Coucounis article you say the owner forwarded to you.You also need to submit a statement to the owners every 3 months covering the previous 3 months expenditure.
Maybe it's advisable that you seek legal advice from a lawyer on how to set up a management committee as this will follow the law of the land.

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Re: Legal advice - communal property

Post by Varky » Thu Jul 18, 2019 2:47 pm

I concur with those that say that not all lawyers are totally au fait with the law relating to the management of apartment complexes.

However I do not concur with the statement made by A&J
The money collected by the MC for maintenance, repair and insurance etc. needs to be spent in the year following the AGM when the budget was agreed. According to the law, a management committee is not allowed to keep large amounts of money in the fund and that imposing further fees whilst there is a surplus is not in line with the provisions of the law
This does not take into account the spreading out over a longer period than 1 year of an extremely large expected expenditure for such as a Bio-Plant that the developer failed to provide when building the apartment complex.

Would A&J (or anybody else) please provide evidence of what they stated.

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Re: Legal advice - communal property

Post by Lofos-Jan » Thu Jul 18, 2019 4:47 pm

I agree. For example, painting of a largish complex can be double that amount and as it would be less disruptive and several thousand cheaper to get it done at the same time rather than staging, such a sum collected over a period of time would be justified. But, owners should be made aware of and agree to any such plans that a committee has. I often find that commmittees are lacking in informing owners of 'their' exact plans and owners are often not aware of the correct legal processes. Without transparency, the chance of legal challenges will grow. The €8K is absolutely fine is there is a full explanation of why it is being saved.

Jeanne
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J B
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Re: Legal advice - communal property

Post by J B » Tue Jul 23, 2019 10:59 am

A&J wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 11:34 am
Maybe it's advisable that you seek legal advice from a lawyer on how to set up a management committee as this will follow the law of the land.
That's a great idea, many thanks.

Maybe I could start a thread on here asking for recommendations for one?
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Re: Legal advice - communal property

Post by The Aquila » Tue Jul 23, 2019 11:15 am


kansas
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Re: Legal advice - communal property

Post by kansas » Thu Jul 25, 2019 10:19 am

As matter of interest, are there any small complexes running themselves successfully without feeling the need to have a MC? It may be against the current law but does it avoid complications?

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Re: Legal advice - communal property

Post by J B » Thu Jul 25, 2019 12:01 pm

The Aquila wrote:
Tue Jul 23, 2019 11:15 am
Or ask Nigel Howarth?
I think the owner would prefer if we had a lawyer involved ......

kansas wrote:
Thu Jul 25, 2019 10:19 am
As matter of interest, are there any small complexes running themselves successfully without feeling the need to have a MC? It may be against the current law but does it avoid complications?
How can you run without a MC?
Who pays the bills?
Organises the meetings?
Organises the maintenance?
etc etc
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Dominic
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Re: Legal advice - communal property

Post by Dominic » Thu Jul 25, 2019 1:10 pm

J B wrote:
Tue Jul 23, 2019 10:59 am
A&J wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 11:34 am
Maybe it's advisable that you seek legal advice from a lawyer on how to set up a management committee as this will follow the law of the land.
That's a great idea, many thanks.

Maybe I could start a thread on here asking for recommendations for one?
You don't have to ask for permission. By all means start another thread. I can add recommendations to the directory too, and update the existing data with recommendations.

This is the directory as it stands:

https://www.paphoslife.com/directory/category/legal
Web Designer / Developer. Currently working on Paphos Life.
Living in Polemi, Cyprus with my wife and daughter.

J B
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Re: Legal advice - communal property

Post by J B » Thu Jul 25, 2019 2:22 pm

Sorry Dominic, my comment was a little tongue in cheek, as I thought that was what my original post was asking.

Anyway, we are now speaking to a lawyer so hope to resolve the issues raised.

:)

EDIT - just looked at your link and the person we have chosen is on your list! :D
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kansas
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Re: Legal advice - communal property

Post by kansas » Thu Jul 25, 2019 4:14 pm

Actually JB, our complex has been doing this for several years by enlisting volunteers. We have someone to handle the finance and someone to produce the accounts twice a year. We have three cheque book signatories. It's very uncomplicated and we've kept the costs way down as a result.

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Re: Legal advice - communal property

Post by J B » Thu Jul 25, 2019 4:56 pm

kansas wrote:
Thu Jul 25, 2019 4:14 pm
Actually JB, our complex has been doing this for several years by enlisting volunteers. We have someone to handle the finance and someone to produce the accounts twice a year. We have three cheque book signatories. It's very uncomplicated and we've kept the costs way down as a result.
Exactly the same as our complex - we have ten houses and do everything on a voluntary basis. It has been very "uncomplicated" most of the time.
I'm the chairman and there is a secretary who is also a signatory. but I think we have used one cheque in the last 5 years!
I handle all the funds via the B of C on line account.
Another guy keeps the spreadsheets up to date.
Simples! :)

However, if we are acting outside the law, then we need change so that we are lawful.

How would you manage if suddenly you were suspected of law breaking? :)
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Re: Legal advice - communal property

Post by kansas » Thu Jul 25, 2019 5:14 pm

Would consider changing to a managing agent.

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Re: Legal advice - communal property

Post by J B » Thu Jul 25, 2019 6:32 pm

kansas wrote:
Thu Jul 25, 2019 5:14 pm
Would consider changing to a managing agent.
I'm tempted to say the same - I wonder how much one would charge?

But then presumably to comply with the law you would still need a comitte .... wouldn't you?
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Re: Legal advice - communal property

Post by smudger » Thu Jul 25, 2019 9:28 pm

Yep, committee is required, but would seriously recommend a management company. Going it alone requires so much knowledge, which most of us simply don't have. Check it out seriously.
Russell Flick has published a book - "The Ultimate Committee Handbook" - very very useful!!

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Re: Legal advice - communal property

Post by Varky » Thu Jul 25, 2019 11:06 pm

smudger wrote:
Thu Jul 25, 2019 9:28 pm
Yep, committee is required, but would seriously recommend a management company. Going it alone requires so much knowledge, which most of us simply don't have. Check it out seriously.
Russell Flick has published a book - "The Ultimate Committee Handbook" - very very useful!!
From my experience I am not sure that a management/maintenance company would know a great deal more than an experienced management committee. As far as maintenance works are concerned they usually outsource the work or let one of their relatives in the company do the work. In the case of the former any competent committee could do the same and probably cheaper.

Having said this a MC would act as a collection agent for maintenance fees, but do not be fooled by any talk of them being able to chase non-payers. This is, in general, BS.

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