Central heating without diesel/gas in Cyprus...

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cyprusmax47
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Central heating without diesel/gas in Cyprus...

Post by cyprusmax47 » Tue Nov 26, 2019 9:05 am

There is a new business idea at Green Air Paphos which can help to reduce not only CO2 emissions, but also heating costs.

Many houses are equipped with central heating, normally with wall-mounted radiators but sometimes also underfloor systems. Equally is the way the boiler is producing the hot water: either with heating diesel or gas/kerosine. The emissions, specially from our heavy diesel are not only very unpleasant, but also high in CO2 if the boiler is not serviced after every heating period. (but even then as the quality of the fuel is so bad)

So the idea is to change the way we heat the water up without fossil fuel by using a electric heat pump instead.

It's a air-water heat pump, the same type which can heat your swimming pool. It can be installed in existing central heating systems very easy and the old system would be only a back-up.

As our Cyprus winter is very mild and temperatures in the day time are around 18c and in the nights only on rare occasions less than 5c, but normally ca 8c, a heat pump works very well, extracting heat from outside air.

When you run the heat pump through day time while outside temperatures are higher, it works very efficient and keeps your home warm, dry and comfortable. Best of course if you have underfloor heating.

To optimize the reduction of CO2 emissions as well as your electricity bills, the perfect solution is if you produce your electricity on your roof or garden with photo-voltaic panels and the so called net-metering system, accepted by EAC. Home owners which have already a larger PV system and produce more electricity than they need it is ideal to switch from diesel/gas heating to an electric heat pump.

But also without such a PV installation you can reduce your diesel/gas and service costs every year.

Heat pumps run without problems many years like air-cons do and have not the same problems many people discover in autumn when they try to start their central heating boiler and it is not working.

Max

Jim B
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Re: Central heating without diesel/gas in Cyprus...

Post by Jim B » Tue Nov 26, 2019 9:25 am

Hi Max.
How much do they cost?

Jim

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cyprusmax47
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Re: Central heating without diesel/gas in Cyprus...

Post by cyprusmax47 » Tue Nov 26, 2019 10:00 am

Jim B wrote:
Tue Nov 26, 2019 9:25 am
Hi Max.
How much do they cost?

Jim
It is very difficult to tell you the exact price before inspecting the existing installation Jim. There is different work involved at every central heating system installed, but also different brands and sizes of heat pumps. A good quality and large sized one is in the area of 5-6000 Euro which has much more capacity then a heat pump for a 4x4 swimming pool p.e. So in the end Green Air has to sent one of their experts to have a look at your premises and do a quote for you.

Max

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Re: Central heating without diesel/gas in Cyprus...

Post by JimX » Tue Nov 26, 2019 2:39 pm

Never found any need for central heating, but our house is small and cheap to heat, we had CH in our first property in Peyia and it was gas combi boiler and radiators, we hardly ever needed it on.
Jim.

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Re: Central heating without diesel/gas in Cyprus...

Post by Kili01 » Tue Nov 26, 2019 6:03 pm

Max,
All your post was devoted to fitting a heat pump to houses which already have central heating. But is it practical to fit one to houses which don’t have this, but need central heating? Obviously underfloor isn’t practical to an already finished house, but can some form of radiator or wall heaters be used with a heat pump?
Dee

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Re: Central heating without diesel/gas in Cyprus...

Post by Jimgward » Tue Nov 26, 2019 6:16 pm

In Spain, they rarely fit solar on houses, always heat pumps, for pool heating (shorter seasons tha Cyprus) and for house heating AND air-conditioning. All done centrally in a new house, but retrofitted as well. A heat pump generates approximately twice the output that goes into it, from electricity.

An ideal combination would be solar net metering running heat pumps. Then, you product electricity for free ~(once capital is paid) then produce heat/cooling for free

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Re: Central heating without diesel/gas in Cyprus...

Post by Jim B » Tue Nov 26, 2019 9:47 pm

Jim Ward
I have net metering and oil fired underfloor heating which is quite expensive to run and I was looking for a system that would support the central heating which appears to be what Max is suggesting the air pump system can provide.

Jim

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Re: Central heating without diesel/gas in Cyprus...

Post by trevnhil » Wed Nov 27, 2019 7:50 am

For those who are running and expensive system now it may well make sense to go for a heat pump..
Our central heating is run by a gas boiler and costs us around €600 euros a year. So I don't think I will be changing anything :-)
Trev..

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Re: Central heating without diesel/gas in Cyprus...

Post by cyprusmax47 » Thu Nov 28, 2019 8:31 am

Kili01 wrote:
Tue Nov 26, 2019 6:03 pm
Max,
All your post was devoted to fitting a heat pump to houses which already have central heating. But is it practical to fit one to houses which don’t have this, but need central heating? Obviously underfloor isn’t practical to an already finished house, but can some form of radiator or wall heaters be used with a heat pump?
Dee
Dee,
Most houses can be retrofitted for central heating. I remember one of my German customers in Tala wanted central heating and pool heating via a solar thermal system. As there were no radiators at all in that house which was ca 15 years old, Green Air heating engineers installed them using a loop from outside of the house, starting at the boiler room. So from inside it looked like a normal radiator and the pipes outside were nicely plated with copper.

This way one can decide to install central heating with heat pump as well...

Max

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Re: Central heating without diesel/gas in Cyprus...

Post by kansas » Thu Nov 28, 2019 9:24 am

We had Green Air to recently install 3 dual inverters and they are brilliant, and will keep our house warm throughout our winter even on a low setting. Best of all there are no radiators to install. Our house is small but with very high ceilings so we put our ceiling fans on to winter setting and run these to ensure the heat is circulated.

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Re: Central heating without diesel/gas in Cyprus...

Post by Jim B » Thu Nov 28, 2019 11:00 am

We had dual inverters fitted by Green Air and they are very efficient but find the tiled floor is the coldest part of the house, that's why we went for underfloor heating due to similar experience in the first place we rented here.
We've lowered and insulated all our external ceilings and hopefully we will see some benefits this winter but I do like the idea of an air pump as support for our oil fired heating which is expensive to run.

Jim

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Re: Central heating without diesel/gas in Cyprus...

Post by cyprusmax47 » Sat Nov 30, 2019 2:58 pm

cyprusmax47 wrote:
Thu Nov 28, 2019 8:31 am
Kili01 wrote:
Tue Nov 26, 2019 6:03 pm
Max,
All your post was devoted to fitting a heat pump to houses which already have central heating. But is it practical to fit one to houses which don’t have this, but need central heating? Obviously underfloor isn’t practical to an already finished house, but can some form of radiator or wall heaters be used with a heat pump?
Dee
Dee,
Most houses can be retrofitted for central heating. I remember one of my German customers in Tala wanted central heating and pool heating via a solar thermal system. As there were no radiators at all in that house which was ca 15 years old, Green Air heating engineers installed them using a loop from outside of the house, starting at the boiler room. So from inside it looked like a normal radiator and the pipes outside were nicely plated with copper.

This way one can decide to install central heating with heat pump as well...

Max
Annoying habit is when you are asked technical questions and you are replying..... but the enquirer is not even bothered for a comment after all...

Max

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Re: Central heating without diesel/gas in Cyprus...

Post by Devil » Sat Nov 30, 2019 3:49 pm

Our house didn't have the means for central heating but we put it in entirely internally (no heat losses to the outside world). We had the pipes run in white-painted steel channels which are up against the ceilings and are never seen. There are smaller drop channels housing the two pipes above each radiator, but these are not obtrusive. Much better solution than large channels close to ground level and no thermal losses heating the village with outside pipes (ignoring the execrably bad insulation of the house itself).

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Re: Central heating without diesel/gas in Cyprus...

Post by jeba » Sun Dec 01, 2019 7:44 am

Devil wrote:
Sat Nov 30, 2019 3:49 pm
Our house didn't have the means for central heating but we put it in entirely internally (no heat losses to the outside world). We had the pipes run in white-painted steel channels which are up against the ceilings and are never seen. There are smaller drop channels housing the two pipes above each radiator, but these are not obtrusive. Much better solution than large channels close to ground level and no thermal losses heating the village with outside pipes (ignoring the execrably bad insulation of the house itself).
The probably uninsulated pipes running in the ground from the furnace (which is 10m away) to the house makes me wonder whether it´s a good idea to switch on the (Diesel-) central heating or whether it´s more efficient to use the aircons for heating. Any educated guesses?

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Re: Central heating without diesel/gas in Cyprus...

Post by Devil » Sun Dec 01, 2019 11:42 am

A modern silent aircon would be more efficient and cost-saving (a wee bittie with EAC tariffs) but your heat may not be in the form you would prefer. The gentle heat from radiators is easier to live with.

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Re: Central heating without diesel/gas in Cyprus...

Post by JimX » Mon Dec 02, 2019 7:00 am

I think good insulation is a better spend on Cy, I had all ceiling insulated and decent UPVC this made a huge difference money well spent, now all we need is a fitted gas fire and a couple of wall heaters, I am thinking of a wall wrap this is though fairly expensive but very efficient.
Jim.

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Re: Central heating without diesel/gas in Cyprus...

Post by Jimgward » Mon Dec 02, 2019 11:49 am

I am lucky, in that my builder created a house with cavity wall. Like the UK standard. Only bad heat loss/add area is the flat roofs, I have considered thermal ceilings there, As in the summer, the bedrooms can get very warm with mid-day sun. Although this year I had solar panels across most of the roof, so this will actually reflect a lot of the sun.

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Re: Central heating without diesel/gas in Cyprus...

Post by Jim B » Mon Dec 02, 2019 1:00 pm

I put the heating on this morning as we had been away for a couple of weeks and the house was cold. Within a couple of hours the underfloor heating had warmed the whole house. I would advise anyone building a place and contemplating central heating to go for underfloor heating. We have a hot water system but you can also get an electric system these days which wasnt available when we first moved here. With underfloor heating you have more available wall space and the heat does rise through mats. A little more expensive but worth the outlay as far as we're concerned.

Jim

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Re: Central heating without diesel/gas in Cyprus...

Post by Jimgward » Mon Dec 02, 2019 2:54 pm

A 'passive' (energy efficient) house would never advocate wall radiators today - but underfloor heating every time

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Re: Central heating without diesel/gas in Cyprus...

Post by Devil » Mon Dec 02, 2019 3:58 pm

Jimgward wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 2:54 pm
A 'passive' (energy efficient) house would never advocate wall radiators today - but underfloor heating every time
Have you ever lived in a house with underfloor heating? If so, I hope you don't suffer from hyperhidrosis.

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